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Clark Spencer: Marlins Picked Nicolino Over Aaron Sanchez and Syndergaard

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  • Clark Spencer: Marlins Picked Nicolino Over Aaron Sanchez and Syndergaard

    Marlins could have received ace starter in Toronto trade

    Daydream a little.

    Just imagine if the Marlins had a one-two tandem of Jose Fernandez and Noah Syndergaard anchoring their starting rotation.

    It’s not just wishful thinking.

    The Marlins, at one time, could have had Syndergaard.

    Or Aaron Sanchez, another young hurler with a good arm.

    Instead, when the Toronto Blue Jays gave them a choice of three minor-league pitchers during negotiations preceding their 2012 blockbuster trade, Miami passed on both and settled on Justin Nicolino.

    That ill-fated decision created a seismic shift in the balance of power in the National League East, and it’s one that likely haunts them now.

    While Syndergaard has emerged as a dominator with the New York Mets and Sanchez has blossomed into a solid fixture in the Blue Jays’ starting rotation, Nicolino has struggled.

    On Sunday, the Marlins demoted Nicolino to Triple A.

    The Marlins could sorely use a Syndergaard, or a Sanchez, to bolster a suspect starting rotation headed by Fernandez but containing no true No. 2 or No. 3 starter.

    And, yet, in their Let’s Make A Deal moment with the Blue Jays, the Marlins picked the wrong door.

    According to sources with knowledge of trade discussions with the Blue Jays in November, 2012 — the 11-player exchange in which the Marlins salary-dumped Jose Reyes and Mark Buehrle — the Marlins were given a choice of three prized prospects who had spent the previous summer at Single A Lansing.

    Syndergaard, Sanchez and Nicolino.

    Take your pick.

    At the time, it wasn’t the easy choice that it appears now.

    Baseball America in 2012 ranked Nicolino as the No. 5 prospect in the talent-laden Jays organization. Sanchez was No. 6. Syndergaard was No. 7.

    All three were coming off strong seasons.

    Nicolino had gone 10-4 with a 2.46 ERA. His strikeout-to-walk ratio of 5.67 was the best among the three. Syndergaard went 8-5 with a 2.60 ERA and a SO/W ratio of 3.94. Sanchez was 8-5 with a 2.49 ERA and SO/W ratio of 1.90.

    The view within the Marlins organization was that Nicolino was the most polished of the three. And he gained extra value as the only left-hander in the trio.

    And so on Nov. 19, 2012, the Marlins received a haul of Nicolino, Adeiny Hechavarria, Henderson Alvarez, Anthony DeSclafani, Jake Marisnick, Jeff Mathis and Yunel Escobar. They gave up Reyes, Buehrle, John Buck, Josh Johnson and Emilio Bonifacio.

    One month later, on Dec. 17, the Mets landed Syndergaard, along with Travis d’Arnaud, from Toronto in exchange for R.A. Dickey and two others.

    Syndergaard this season is 7-2 with a 1.91 ERA for the Mets.

    Sanchez is 7-1 with a 3.35 ERA for the Blue Jays.

    Nicolino went 2-4 with a 5.17 ERA for the Marlins.

    He will make his next start with New Orleans.

  • #2
    didn't we know this at the time?
    Originally posted by Madman81
    Most of the people in the world being dumb is not a requirement for you to be among their ranks.
    Need help? Questions? Concerns? Want to chat? PM me!

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by emkayseven View Post
      didn't we know this at the time?
      No reporter actually confirmed it until now.

      Comment


      • #4
        Glad the front office has been mostly gutted.

        Comment


        • #5
          Now, the Jays will not include Syndergaard in the deal, wanting to keep two of the Lansing Trio.

          Marlins scout Matt Kinser had a feel for Nicolino, he liked him best.


          Another thought Sydnendgaard was the best.


          And the next scout may have said Sanchez.
          that was from the article posted here: http://soflamarlins.com/showthread.p...-Marlins-Trade
          Originally posted by Madman81
          Most of the people in the world being dumb is not a requirement for you to be among their ranks.
          Need help? Questions? Concerns? Want to chat? PM me!

          Comment


          • #6
            Guess who do you trust, Toronto Sun reporter or Clark Spencer.

            Maybe they got conflicting info. But since I'm a miserable person, I'm going to believe Clark.

            Comment


            • #7
              Considering they traded him like a month later you definitely gotta believe Spencer.
              "You owe it to yourself to find your own unorthodox way of succeeding, or sometimes, just surviving."
              - Michael Johnson


              J.T. Realmuto .282/.351/.412

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              • #8
                if you read the article at the link I posted, we wanted 2 of those guys and they didn't want to trade two

                yes, we went with Nicolino, but I think it upped the return elsewhere

                and, just like Miller/Maybin, it wasn't crazy to rate Nicolino over Syndergaard - he had the better stats and was the higher-ranked prospect at the time, so it's not like only our scouts failed on it
                Originally posted by Madman81
                Most of the people in the world being dumb is not a requirement for you to be among their ranks.
                Need help? Questions? Concerns? Want to chat? PM me!

                Comment


                • #9
                  I wouldn't say he had better stats. Thor's K% was quite a bit higher, and he was younger.

                  And he was not a better prospect at the time. Thor was considered a top-30 prospect at that point, Nicolino barely cracked the top 100.

                  I would also want/hope their scouts/personnel are better than ones that work at Baseball America.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by emkayseven View Post
                    didn't we know this at the time?
                    Yes but since I am a bullshitter no one believed it till a reporter comfirmed it. Just like we wanted to keep Nicolino over Heaney,no one will believe it until a "name" reports it.

                    They wanted Syndergaard or Nicolino and were told Thor was "off limits" but that was more because they were talking to the Mets at the same time and that is the only pitcher they demanded-it was reported that Mets said Thor or no deal. It was reported they wanted to keep Sanchez and we didn't mind cause we liked the other 2 more and when Toronto said Thor off limits we were happy to take Nicolino.

                    The "trade" was actually JJ for Nicolino and Desco so whiile Nicolino has been sucking and Desco traded we still won cause JJ is destroyed now

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Except what you're saying is the opposite. You're saying Marlins didn't have a choice, the reporter is saying they did

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by nny View Post
                        Except what you're saying is the opposite. You're saying Marlins didn't have a choice, the reporter is saying they did
                        They did but was between Nicolino and Sanchez. It started out as all 3 BUT Toronto was also talking with NYM as well as us and were told that if they want RA Dickey it would cost them Syndergaard so they took him off the table and we were told either Nicolino or Sanchez. Toronto wanted to keep Sanchez and we liked Nicolino more than him. They made the trade with us and the next month did the deal with the Mets

                        As MK7 noted

                        Mon. Nov. 12, Miami.

                        The Marlins have a conference call, including Loria.

                        There is a snag.

                        Now, the Jays will not include Syndergaard in the deal, wanting to keep two of the Lansing Trio.


                        They probably would have rather had Syndergaard but the Mets said if he is not in deal for Dickey than we arent trading him. Of course they can't tell us why they really wanted to keep him
                        Last edited by tjfla; 06-21-2016, 02:04 PM.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by nny View Post
                          Except what you're saying is the opposite. You're saying Marlins didn't have a choice, the reporter is saying they did
                          Didn't he also say that adding Reyes made the deal worse?

                          I gave you credit tjfla. Your draft predictions were right for the first time in the board's history. Don't waste that by being a douchenugget.
                          Amy Adams, AKA Cinnamon Muff
                          Logan Morrison: "If baseball didn't exist, I would probably be ... like a curler. Or a hairstylist."
                          Noah Perio
                          Jupiter
                          39 AB
                          15 H
                          0 2B
                          0 3B
                          0 HR
                          0 BB
                          .385/.385/.385

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Todd View Post
                            Didn't he also say that adding Reyes made the deal worse?

                            I gave you credit tjfla. Your draft predictions were right for the first time in the board's history. Don't waste that by being a douchenugget.
                            I seem to only get credit when wrong. Ill stick with douchenugget,makes me feel like I actually belong this board with the rest of them

                            Next year u won't even remember I said Garrett

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I think I even remember that was a thing back in 2012 and considering I wasn't on the board at the time, I can't say that I remember it because TJ reported it. I thought it was understood that the Marlins did what the Marlins do, which is take a lesser return to dump more money and get more quantity. That is what they did after all, going for the Nicolino-Desclafani-Alvarez grouping rather than just Thor.

                              Not sure what the point of this debate is considering we already know Nicolino stinks and we still have him even though it feels like a half-dozen better pitchers could be here instead.

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