Miami Marlins 2016 Offseason Discussion Thread

[fish16]

Well we got Barraclough for Cishek...that worked out pretty well.

while you are right about that, i think we got fairly lucky with that and we sold a reliever yet again when his value was at its absolute lowest. We did it with Capps when the year before they were talking about possibly getting Judge from the yankees, and I have a terrible feeling it's going to happen again with Ramos. Even on a contending team Ramos is a good but not Miller/Chapman type of reliever and it is better to sell high on him now than have him be our closer for a bad team with no farm system. But yes, you are right and I did forget that we got Barraclough for Cishek.

[tjfla]

I could be wrong, but I think the idea was to sign and use him as a bench player/spot starter, not replacing one of our starters. In which case, you'd be comparing him to Chris Johnson and the rest of the bench guys (who else was there? Dietrich, Ichiro, Rojas, Mathis, who else?)

Ya spot starter at 3B/1B(he can hit lefties some) and if we traded Ozuna I could see him playing in LF some. I doubt we would get him however would be a solid pickup

No point in trading AJ especially with the new strategy that it looks like we are going with. Cishek was dealt cause his price was going to be too much so instead of just getting rid of him in the offseason they got a guy they liked in Bearclaw

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Farm systems can be easily be rebuilt now IF u are willing to spend the cash to do it. It used to be the way to rebuild was to trade everyone however now u can draft talent and sign talent

Our issue is we dont draft or sign talent. U could have gotten Gurriel for 22 million and they passed

Talking about talent Frances Martes is the #1 Prospect in a great system. How nice would it have been if someone would have said NO instead of thats all u want?

I will say 1 thing someone deserves ALOT of credit because we can find cheap DSL talent

[dim]

The thing is trading AJ Ramos now would be getting peak value in return. Closers are highly coveted and AJ Ramos is coming off a year when he was an All Star. I'm honestly not confident that he'll make another All Star team. I also feel Barraclough could ultimately do a better job.

Add in the fact the farm system needs a desperate need for some decent prospects and I think the team is actively harming itself by keeping Ramos into next season.

I also argue that cash isn't the problem with rebuilding the farm. The Cubs were able to put together that godly farm system mainly through great first round draft picks, timely trades that involved unloading players at the absolute right time (hello Jeff Samardzja, Andrew Cashner) and getting great young players that make up the foundation. The Cubs would be a good team without spending a dime in the international market. They went to extraordinarily great and a future dynasty by putting the money into the international market and getting high priced, although mainly fair priced free agents (Heyward, Hammel, Zobrist, Lester, etc...).

There is still a market to succeed for teams that are thrifty with spending. The Indians spent just $2 million more than the Marlins this past season and made the World Series while looking like perennial playoff contenders.

The difference between the Marlins and the Indians is all in the execution. A large portion of the Indians talented roster, from Cody Allen to Jason Kipnis to Carlos Santana to Danny Salazar to Francisco Lindor and more are young, homegrown talents brought up by the Indians themselves. Even guys like Michael Brantley and Corey Kluber were acquired by the Indians before they had played a game in the majors.

It really isn't all that difficult to see how a winning baseball team is put together. While it's not one single thing, building a strong farm system is the lead factor in creating a winning franchise. The old system of just throwing money at players doesn't really exist anymore. Even the Yankees have invested in building a farm system and it is working huge wonders for them. The Dodgers spend a ton, but they've still invested a great deal in their young talent like Seager, De Leon and Urias.

I hate liking this team right now. I've watched them squander a moderate farm system in minor trades that have mostly made no difference in the big leagues over the last two+ years and nobody wants to take responsibility for the state it is in.

[dim]

This front office should be absolutely ashamed of itself. They are going to be allowed to use Jose's death as an excuse now for not being a playoff team, and while few teams in baseball can easily adjust to losing an 24-year-old ace pitcher (especially a death), this team wasn't on the cusp of greatness with Jose. We were going to be in a position very soon where we were going to be paying Giancarlo $25 million a year, payroll was going to balloon into the $100 million+ range, and the team was going to have to look to trade Jose to rebuild the farm and in a sense start over again because the team put together was an 86 or 87 win team max with everything going completely right, and more likely an 80 win team all things considered.

[fish16]

This front office should be absolutely ashamed of itself. They are going to be allowed to use Jose's death as an excuse now for not being a playoff team, and while few teams in baseball can easily adjust to losing an 24-year-old ace pitcher (especially a death), this team wasn't on the cusp of greatness with Jose. We were going to be in a position very soon where we were going to be paying Giancarlo $25 million a year, payroll was going to balloon into the $100 million+ range, and the team was going to have to look to trade Jose to rebuild the farm and in a sense start over again because the team put together was an 86 or 87 win team max with everything going completely right, and more likely an 80 win team all things considered.

ya and that is what pisses me off. This team, even with Jose, is one of the most mismanaged and poorly run teams in all of sports. there is just no plan and it's like they run the team as if they dont know they have a lack of resources. I was in favor of trading Jose to the sox for moancada + but this team is just so poorly managed. Hopefully Loria will be gone soon though.

[tjfla]

The thing is trading AJ Ramos now would be getting peak value in return. Closers are highly coveted and AJ Ramos is coming off a year when he was an All Star. I'm honestly not confident that he'll make another All Star team. I also feel Barraclough could ultimately do a better job.

Add in the fact the farm system needs a desperate need for some decent prospects and I think the team is actively harming itself by keeping Ramos into next season.

I also argue that cash isn't the problem with rebuilding the farm. The Cubs were able to put together that godly farm system mainly through great first round draft picks, timely trades that involved unloading players at the absolute right time (hello Jeff Samardzja, Andrew Cashner) and getting great young players that make up the foundation. The Cubs would be a good team without spending a dime in the international market. They went to extraordinarily great and a future dynasty by putting the money into the international market and getting high priced, although mainly fair priced free agents (Heyward, Hammel, Zobrist, Lester, etc...).

There is still a market to succeed for teams that are thrifty with spending. The Indians spent just $2 million more than the Marlins this past season and made the World Series while looking like perennial playoff contenders.

The difference between the Marlins and the Indians is all in the execution. A large portion of the Indians talented roster, from Cody Allen to Jason Kipnis to Carlos Santana to Danny Salazar to Francisco Lindor and more are young, homegrown talents brought up by the Indians themselves. Even guys like Michael Brantley and Corey Kluber were acquired by the Indians before they had played a game in the majors.

It really isn't all that difficult to see how a winning baseball team is put together. While it's not one single thing, building a strong farm system is the lead factor in creating a winning franchise. The old system of just throwing money at players doesn't really exist anymore. Even the Yankees have invested in building a farm system and it is working huge wonders for them. The Dodgers spend a ton, but they've still invested a great deal in their young talent like Seager, De Leon and Urias.

I hate liking this team right now. I've watched them squander a moderate farm system in minor trades that have mostly made no difference in the big leagues over the last two+ years and nobody wants to take responsibility for the state it is in.

Well the Cubs blew the team up then sucked. Braves,Padres are doing it now and are doing it thru money. When I say money I mean using draft pool $ as well as IFA cash. The Braves drafted 4 1st Rd picks this season by getting draft picks in trades and using the money wisely. We get the #2 pick and instead of using cash wisely we go for Tyler Kolek and 2 guys who are projects-Blake Anderson who probably wont make it out of Rookie Ball and Twine who will be playing college fb in 2 years.

To make matters worse,our draft strategy after Rd 10 is to draft 23 yr olds to add minors depth. Its hard to develop homegrown talents when u draft a guy and after the first year he is still in Rookie ball at 24

Seriously tho unless Loria sells the team its gonna stay the same. He is a cheapskate who is happy winning 81 games a year and putting cash in his pocket. We need an owner who is willing to spend cash and actually have a baseball FO-hire a President,GM and the owner can sit in his office, just write checks and ask a few times a year-How is the team doing?

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By way did anyone see who led the AFL in HR?

Brian Anderson

They also Won the AFL

[HUGG]

Kendrys Flores debuts at 28 on the Cardinals top 30 prospects list

[dim]

It's cool that a team with such a garbage farm system keeps finding ways to let potential major league players go (Canha, Flores, Scruggs, Woods). That's not even bringing up useless trades.

[tjfla]

It's cool that a team with such a garbage farm system keeps finding ways to let potential major league players go (Canha, Flores, Scruggs, Woods). That's not even bringing up useless trades.

Potential major league players go who do NOT need to be gone either. Flores and Scruggs were outrighted off the 40 man and we have 5 spots open. Ege was added to the 40 man when he didn't need to be. Woods,Smolinski,Adduci gone

Alot of teams take advantage of the 6 yr FA thing. The guy stays in the system no matter what happens. With us,1 screw up and gone. Don't produce as a 19 yr old in Jupiter and gone. My favorite tho is sign as a 17 yr old(IFA/HS) and get rid of by 19-replace him with a 27 yr old??

[HUGG]

Diamondbacks got Taijuan Walker and Ketel Marte for Jean Segura, Mitch Haniger and Zac Curtis.

A rare trade where I legitimately feel like the Marlins could have topped that smdh

[dim]

I don't think we have a 5 WAR player to get Taijuan Walker unless you wanted to trade Yelich.

EDIT: Walker isn't the right gamble anyway. His price was still pretty high and there's still little to signal him turning the corner and become more than a #3 starter at best. He's worth a gamble but Segura was really good last year.

[emkayseven]

Weird, I think the Mariners won that trade big time

[fish16]

I dont think they did, but I havent looked into the other guys they got besides Segura. Segura had a good year, but he is now 28 and that was only his second year that was anything more than below average. I would have given Ozuna for Walker. He's going to break out soon. Im also not a fan of Ozuna, however.

[tjfla]

Diamondbacks got Taijuan Walker and Ketel Marte for Jean Segura, Mitch Haniger and Zac Curtis.

A rare trade where I legitimately feel like the Marlins could have topped that smdh

Last year Miami wanted Walker and Trumbo(Seattle pays $) for Ozuna and Seattle said NO. This year we wanted MORE for Ozuna than just Walker. Makes sense for Seattle tho,they get Segura who can go to SS(better than Cozart or Hech),Haniger as a 4th OF.

Don't be surprised if u see Ozuna in a Cards jersey. They have been talking alot and St Louis has pitching to deal and match up well with us

Marlins are waiting for the FA OF guys to sign than start shopping Ozuna hard to teams that missed on Cespedes OR don't wanna pay a massive price for Justin Upton

[rmc523]

Last year Miami wanted Walker and Trumbo(Seattle pays $) for Ozuna and Seattle said NO. This year we wanted MORE for Ozuna than just Walker. Makes sense for Seattle tho,they get Segura who can go to SS(better than Cozart or Hech),Haniger as a 4th OF.

Don't be surprised if u see Ozuna in a Cards jersey. They have been talking alot and St Louis has pitching to deal and match up well with us

Marlins are waiting for the FA OF guys to sign than start shopping Ozuna hard to teams that missed on Cespedes OR don't wanna pay a massive price for Justin Upton

So who would be our center or left fielder assuming an Ozuna trade if they're going to wait until the other OF guys sign to trade him? I like the idea of trading him for a starter that we need, but my 'plan' would including signing one of the FA outfielders to replace his bat.