David Samson's Days Numbered?

[Erick]

Yea but can you blame Beinfest for that when Loria has a proverbial gun against his head to trade them. Especially when guys like Buck and Bell are shoved down his throat? It's still all Loria
--------------------


I think it is pretty cool he has drafted Stanton, Fernandez, Yelich, Cishek, Heaney, and another couple good arms and role players the last couple drafts. Assuming Yelich and Heaney turn into starters, that's a pretty excellent recent track record most organizations would take in a second. We can't bomb him forever on Hermida, Allison, and the "2005 all arm" draft can we?

Recent history suggests he has done a good job. Especially with all the 'new' information last 18 months about how much Loria really meddles. I just find it hard to really criticize him with this nutbag at the top. Don't get me wrong, I still think there are probably another 10 GMs out there that probably do a better job than Beinfest (regardless of payroll/Loria), I'm just saying. I find it just as tough to criticize him as to praise him. You can't really do either. He's just there and doing pretty good, just not great?

I'd really love to see him move to at least a mid market team next offseason just so we can see how he acts with a real franchise. Would be great if he takes over like Seattle so we can see if he fucks that up with a good young core and plenty of cash to spend. Would love some perspective on judging Beinfest and see what we can really dump on Loria. What a clown.

The drafting has gotten better lately it seems, but the trades have been underwhelming. And the process taken to make trades/moves seems rushed, as well.

[Jay]

The drafting has gotten better lately it seems, but the trades have been underwhelming. And the process taken to make trades/moves seems rushed, as well.

Drafting appears to be the front office in full control while trades/moves seem to be mandated moves.

[lou]

The drafting has gotten better lately it seems, but the trades have been underwhelming. And the process taken to make trades/moves seems rushed, as well.

Isn't that Loria with the trades? He demanded they get Rob Brantly (not that he was the main piece and Turner seems pretty good), he made them go get Carlos Lee, he made them shed payroll with Toronto. Maybe I'm wrong, but we can't pin this exclusively on Beinfest?

Again, not saying Beinfest is great, but where do we draw the line with what he is responsible for and not Loria. We kind of don't know because we don't know how the day to day is run in the front office, but I just feel based on everything that has happened, Loria is dictating much of the moves. I just can't kill Beinfest for this team. Getting back to main point, it's just hard to criticize him with this jackass at the top.

[Erick]

Isn't that Loria with the trades? He demanded they get Rob Brantly (not that he was the main piece and Turner seems pretty good), he made them go get Carlos Lee, he made them shed payroll with Toronto. Maybe I'm wrong, but we can't pin this exclusively on Beinfest?

No, that's not Loria with the trades.
Where did you see that he demanded that they get Rob Brantly?

I'm assuming that Loria knows little to nothing about prospects so I don't think he's in charge of demanding what prospects to get. If Loria is in charge of picking prospects then he's probably in charge of drafts, as well. I don't think anyone would give him that much credit.

I'd say Loria has had a lot of say in which free agents are acquired.
He also has a lot of say in the trades for the purpose of shedding salary. In terms of which prospects are acquired via trades, I'm guessing others are in charge of that. And I don't really remember the last time Beinfest won a trade. I guess Ruggiano would be one, not that that was a big deal.

I don't really think Beinfest has a terrible resume as a GM either, but I probably wouldn't care if he were fired. Implying that he deserves some sort of long leash as the article seems to indicate is rather absurd to me. He probably would've been fired a long time ago with many other organizations. Loria has pretty much kept everyone in the front office.

[lou]

I don't really think Beinfest has a terrible resume as a GM either, but I probably wouldn't care if he were fired. Implying that he deserves some sort of long leash as the article seems to indicate is rather absurd to me. He probably would've been fired a long time ago with many other organizations. Loria has pretty much kept everyone in the front office.

I agree with all of this and think that's fair. And I'm sure a strong part of the reason they are all here is he extended everyone through 2015. Makes no sense to have to pay two front offices.

As for Loria wanting Brantly, I remember reading that he demanded he be in the trade. Don't have a link, but fairly certain he wanted him included.

[tjfla]

Loria is in on everything,however he only has a minor hand in the draft. I have heard that the FO has to OK what the guy wants with Loria before they take him. Jennings/Beinfest do our drafts and are actually pretty good at them,if they were actually given a chance to take the BPA instead of guys who will sign imagine what they could do

Example-Moran this year,his people wanted more than #6 Slot to which Loria said NO. That is why we were tied to Meadows,however Moran dropped his price and we took him.

So the FO actually picks the guys however Loria wants finally say on bonus.

Example-Connor Barron a year or 2 ago,we took him he bumped up the price to over 1 million and Loria said no thanks go to school


He actually didn't demand Brantly but said he wanted a young Catcher to which Detroit had Brantly who was like #5 on the prospect list and in the Futures Game. However the Carlos Lee trade was all on him and Ozzie,Ozzie wanted Lee and Loria thought that was the missing piece.

Samson,Beinfest,and Hill are all Loria Yes men. They have titles but that is it,Loria has the final say and Dan Jennings is the only 1 who says NO

[Erick]

Loria is in on everything,however he only has a minor hand in the draft. I have heard that the FO has to OK what the guy wants with Loria before they take him. Jennings/Beinfest do our drafts and are actually pretty good at them,if they were actually given a chance to take the BPA instead of guys who will sign imagine what they could do

Example-Moran this year,his people wanted more than #6 Slot to which Loria said NO. That is why we were tied to Meadows,however Moran dropped his price and we took him.

So the FO actually picks the guys however Loria wants finally say on bonus.

Example-Connor Barron a year or 2 ago,we took him he bumped up the price to over 1 million and Loria said no thanks go to school


He actually didn't demand Brantly but said he wanted a young Catcher to which Detroit had Brantly who was like #5 on the prospect list and in the Futures Game.

And this is wrong of him to do? It's his team and his money. Why wouldn't Loria have the final say on bonuses, etc.?

And he probably demanded a catcher partially because the organization doesn't have one. Who's fault is that?

Beinfest, Hill, etc. haven't exactly done a masterful job regardless of whether or not they're Loria's "yes men."

[tjfla]

And this is wrong of him to do? It's his team and his money. Why wouldn't Loria have the final say on bonuses, etc.?

And he probably demanded a catcher partially because the organization doesn't have one. Who's fault is that?

Beinfest, Hill, etc. haven't exactly done a masterful job regardless of whether or not they're Loria's "yes men."

O i agree,I wouldn't want guys just giving away my cash however that is why u have GM's and all those jobs. The problem is instead of getting guys who will fight him over stuff they just say sounds good. Loria needs a Dave Dombrowski who will say to him sit home,write the checks,shut up and let me run the team. Instead he has guys who say Boss is that what u like?

The idiots who drafted Kyle Skipworth instead of Jason Castro or better yet I am gonna say it's Tom Glavine fault because if he would have pitched better it would have made us 70-92 and picked #6 so we could have taken Buster Posey

Masterful Job? They have titles that is it. Loria is the head of the snake and Samson,Beinfest,Hill are the body. The 3 of them do nothing without Loria saying yes.

[Ramp]

lol Tom Glavine's fault

[tjfla]

lol Tom Glavine's fault

Yes all Tom Glavine's fault!!

He gave up 7 runs in .1 innings and they used like 9 pitchers,if Glavine pitches like he should have then we pick #6 and SF gets #7. Imagine Posey with us until we dealt him and Skip in Fresno stinking it up. We also would have had Posey with 2 good knees cause Scott Cousins wouldn't have taken him out

[Erick]

O i agree,I wouldn't want guys just giving away my cash however that is why u have GM's and all those jobs.

Wut?

[Beef]

Mm hmm

[Todd]

Buster Posey got a $6.2 million signing bonus. The Marlins were not going to draft him no matter what.

[Mainge]

I agree with Todd.

[AdamRavs]

I agree with Todd.

That will never happen again.