Marlins 2017-2018 Offseason Discussion Thread

[tjfla]

Just play hard ball. To me it makes no sense given that Harper is a free agent and that catcher is the last remaining hole on their roster and soto is still 2 years away that they wouldnt eventually cave. Gotta give up something of value to get something of value, especially at a premium position like C when the guy is under team control for 3 more years.

I agree if I am them I tell Washington call us back when u want to do this

Soto
Kieboom
Severino
Mid Level prospect(Denbo likes)

It just seems they wanna get something done before pitchers/catchers report

[fish16]

I agree if I am them I tell Washington call us back when u want to do this

Soto
Kieboom
Severino
Mid Level prospect(Denbo likes)

It just seems they wanna get something done before pitchers/catchers report

asking for soto in a deal for a premier catcher with 3 years of team control is not a big ask.

[tjfla]

Let the stand off begin

Washington just signed Montero to a minor league deal

[fish16]

Let the stand off begin

Washington just signed Montero to a minor league deal

Do you know if the marlins would be willing to exchange Wieters and a guy like Tazawa in a deal? Would make sense now if they still want JT.

[lou]

I agree if I am them I tell Washington call us back when u want to do this

Soto
Kieboom
Severino
Mid Level prospect(Denbo likes)

It just seems they wanna get something done before pitchers/catchers report

Why not agree to take half of Wieters contract from them (so they send $5 mil), and fuck sending them Tazawa or Ziegler to offset. That will lower their payroll $2-3 million and get a major upgrade with Realmuto. Since Realmuto costs $3.5, Marlins really just adding $1.5 million in payroll but they get a veteran catcher for 3 months which is a need.

[sports24/7]

Let the stand off begin

Washington just signed Montero to a minor league deal

There shouldn't be a standoff. It really should be "Robles or go fuck yourself", but if they want it to be "Soto or go fuck yourself". This is the Marlins' problem. This isn't a situation where they need to just take the best offer.

[fish16]

There shouldn't be a standoff. It really should be "Robles or go fuck yourself", but if they want it to be "Soto or go fuck yourself". This is the Marlins' problem. This isn't a situation where they need to just take the best offer.

I love realmuto as much as the next guy, but its beyond absurd to think Robles would be a reasonable ask for JT. Makes no sense for the Nats to do that. Theres a good chance robles would be a better player than JT as soon as this year. It cant hurt to ask, just like it didnt hurt to ask for Acuna, but it makes just as little sense for the Nats to do robles for JT as it did for the Braves to give us acuna for Yelich.

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Why not agree to take half of Wieters contract from them (so they send $5 mil), and fuck sending them Tazawa or Ziegler to offset. That will lower their payroll $2-3 million and get a major upgrade with Realmuto. Since Realmuto costs $3.5, Marlins really just adding $1.5 million in payroll but they get a veteran catcher for 3 months which is a need.

That works too. I just think it makes a ton of sense for the marlins to take a chance on Wieters for the year. Expiring contract, have absolutely nothing at the C position, and if he has a bounce back year you could get something for him at the deadline. if not hes an expiring deal and you move on next offseason. It doesnt really matter, but they do have to find someone to play C all year if they trade JT.

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Reading some on the nats situation, they have luxury tax concerns which is why theyd want to get rid of as much of Wieters salary as possible even if they have to eat some of it.

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Melky Cabrera has drawn some interest from the Marlins, Royals, and Pirates. There hasn’t been much news on the veteran outfielder this winter, with only the Orioles (also mentioned here by Heyman) previously reported to have discussed Cabrera’s services.

from Heyman via MLBTR. Interesting and would hopefully give some indication that the fish dont plan on having brinson or sierra on the mlb roster to start the year.

FWIW, Mish says he sees no way Brinson doesnt start the year on the ML roster and that he hopes they dont keep him off the ML roster and Frisaro responded to his tweet by saying:

I think that could happen, if LB shows any signs of not being completely ready by Opening Day. Service time is an issue. Who knows, though. Perhaps, he's also a candidate for an extension in a year, which would make the point moot.

[lou]

No it wouldn't make the point moot for an extension in a year as a free agency year would be valued higher than an arbitration year. Come on Frisario. Literally the worst operational thing they can do is have Brinson on the roster opening day and not May 8th. He's the # 1 asset in the organization (ignoring Realmuto) and to blow a year of club control is the single most egregious thing they can do.

Melky would be fine if he's cheap. Dietrich, Melky, R. Ortega, V. Slyke, and Prado/Cooper as outfielders in a pinch is fine until May 8th when Brinson can come up, and optimistically June for Sierra/B. Lee. Melky can still hit even if he cannot field at all. I'm fine with that for April, and thereafter 3 days a week.

[Ralph]

Yea not sure Brindon is the guy you want to sign to an extension. Turns 24 this season. If you wait till May he’ll be a free agent after his age 31 season and at that age I’d be fine with him walking away.

[fish16]

It really bothers me that people who write about baseball for a living cant accurately explain service time accurately let alone explain it to their readers. It really leads to so many terrible takes about the marlins and baseball in general.

[sports24/7]

I love realmuto as much as the next guy, but its beyond absurd to think Robles would be a reasonable ask for JT. Makes no sense for the Nats to do that. Theres a good chance robles would be a better player than JT as soon as this year. It cant hurt to ask, just like it didnt hurt to ask for Acuna, but it makes just as little sense for the Nats to do robles for JT as it did for the Braves to give us acuna for Yelich.

He's a prospect. And while he's a good prospect, he's not even the best prospect in baseball (or even top three). You do realize that more often than not, prospects don't even get close to their potential, right? To say that there's a good chance he's better than JT this year is just silly. I'm not saying it can't happen, but to say there's a good chance is just shortsighted. It's actually more likely that he never ends up being as good as JT, period, despite his superstar potential. Realmuto is a proven commodity at one of the most difficult positions in professional sports to find a good player at. He's also young and cheap. Those are the kinds of players that return top prospects. So no, I do not think it's asking for too much. Neither do the Marlins, or anybody reporting that's what Miami is asking for.

[fish16]

He's a prospect. And while he's a good prospect, he's not even the best prospect in baseball (or even top three). You do realize that more often than not, prospects don't even get close to their potential, right? To say that there's a good chance he's better than JT this year is just silly. I'm not saying it can't happen, but to say there's a good chance is just shortsighted. It's actually more likely that he never ends up being as good as JT, period, despite his superstar potential. Realmuto is a proven commodity at one of the most difficult positions in professional sports to find a good player at. He's also young and cheap. Those are the kinds of players that return top prospects. So no, I do not think it's asking for too much. Neither do the Marlins, or anybody reporting that's what Miami is asking for.

he's a top 5 prospect in all of baseball, major league ready to play on a team that needs OF and is set to have harper go to free agency next offseason, and a 5 tool player who has dominated at a young age at every single level he's been to. He's about as sure fire of a star outside of Acuna and Vlad as there is. Realmuto is a good player yes, but he is not this superstar as some want to make him out to be. He's a top 5 catcher and has positional value at a very rare position, but he's nto a superstar nor is he close. He's never put up an OPS of .800. You can ask for whatever you want. You could ask for harper if you want. That doesnt mean you are going to ever get close to getting him. Soto is the guy they will go after and likely eventually get. Similar type talent but a few years off.

[fish16]

Wouldnt mind us taking a flier on Andrew Susac who just got DFA'd by the Brewers. Former good prospect who has been a pretty solid hitter every year aside from this past year. Just given our catching position aside from JT. Plus we have plenty of guys who we could get rid of easily on the 40 man. Talent talent talent.

[sports24/7]

he's a top 5 prospect in all of baseball, major league ready to play on a team that needs OF and is set to have harper go to free agency next offseason, and a 5 tool player who has dominated at a young age at every single level he's been to. He's about as sure fire of a star outside of Acuna and Vlad as there is. Realmuto is a good player yes, but he is not this superstar as some want to make him out to be. He's a top 5 catcher and has positional value at a very rare position, but he's nto a superstar nor is he close. He's never put up an OPS of .800. You can ask for whatever you want. You could ask for harper if you want. That doesnt mean you are going to ever get close to getting him. Soto is the guy they will go after and likely eventually get. Similar type talent but a few years off.

Does he have just as good of odds as Acuna or Vlad? Maybe (although those guys are ranked ahead of him on every list for a reason). The point is that being a top 5 prospect doesn't mean any of these guys will automatically be a superstar. Many top 5 prospects do not go on to be superstars. Many of them don't even go on to be as good as Realmuto. That's part of the deal when trading for prospects. You're giving up a known commodity for an unknown one. The potential is higher, but so is the risk. That's why when media members mention that Miami wants him nobody is scoffing at it.

Nobody is claiming that Realmuto is a star, but he's an incredibly valuable player, and one THAT THEY DON'T HAVE TO TRADE. All we've heard is they'd only move him for an overpay. An overpay here is Robles. Soto is not. Would I be pissed if they make the deal around Soto? No. But then don't blow smoke up our ass telling us it has to be some kind of fantastic deal.

The funny thing is, they're not going to get Soto either. Washington says they're not trading him. If that stays the case, I hope Miami has the brains not to cave, but I think they will. And despite what you say now, I fully expect you to come out and defend the deal just like you came around on the Ozuna one.

[fish16]

Does he have just as good of odds as Acuna or Vlad? Maybe (although those guys are ranked ahead of him on every list for a reason). The point is that being a top 5 prospect doesn't mean any of these guys will automatically be a superstar. Many top 5 prospects do not go on to be superstars. Many of them don't even go on to be as good as Realmuto. That's part of the deal when trading for prospects. You're giving up a known commodity for an unknown one. The potential is higher, but so is the risk. That's why when media members mention that Miami wants him nobody is scoffing at it.

Nobody is claiming that Realmuto is a star, but he's an incredibly valuable player, and one THAT THEY DON'T HAVE TO TRADE. All we've heard is they'd only move him for an overpay. An overpay here is Robles. Soto is not. Would I be pissed if they make the deal around Soto? No. But then don't blow smoke up our ass telling us it has to be some kind of fantastic deal.

The funny thing is, they're not going to get Soto either. Washington says they're not trading him. If that stays the case, I hope Miami has the brains not to cave, but I think they will. And despite what you say now, I fully expect you to come out and defend the deal just like you came around on the Ozuna one.

Yes, prospects are not known commodities, correct. But the top 5 guys are just about as certain assets, let alone a guy who isnt a star like Jt, despite his positional value. Just because prospects arent sure things doesnt mean every proven player that is good but not great is worth up to the top 5 prospect in baseball. IF there wasnt this 6 years of team control and all players were treated alike, sure, but when you have as close to a sure fire star as there is who will be under team control for 6 years and for the absolute minimum for 3 years who is ML ready, ya, thats more valuable than JT. And most people are scoffing at the Marlins asking for Robles or at least admitting that this is completely unrealistic, so im not sure what youre talking about. There is no one who thinks Robles is a realistic asking price for JT. He might be someone you ask for, obviously, but he is someone who under no circumstances you will get. Just like Acuna was for Yelich. If they were still in the sally league or something like Soto maybe, but for guys who are clearly stars and are ML ready as quickly as April, no shot.

And JT is someone they ABSOLUTELY HAVE TO TRADE at the very least by the deadline if he wont sign an extension given that there is close to 0 chance he will re-sign within the year. If you wait until after this year, youre gonna lose the value you are now waiting on attaining.

Soto isnt an overpay. Hes exactly the prospect that makes sense for both sides. Robles is ML ready and the closest thing to a sure fire star as prospects get on a team that has an OF hole and is trying to win the WS this year to convince Harper to re-sign. Soto is a great chance of a star, but is the appropriate price given that he is a top 20-30 prospect in baseball but also a few years away for a team that is trying to compete and win the WS this year. It makes sense for both sides whereas Robles makes absolutely 0 sense for the nats to give up for a player of JT's caliber.

the funny thing is, they likely will be able to get the nats to cave on soto. If not, i likely will not be in favor of the deal unless they get something like Kieboom, Fedde, Read, the 18 year old SS, and another really good prospect. That deal wouldnt be ideal, but it also wouldnt be terrible value given both team's timelines. Id hold out as long as possible for Soto, but if you get to as far as the trade deadline and the best offer is that exact nats offer, you take that and dont look back. Youll end up holding onto a diminishing asset into the offseason who every team knows has 0 intention of re-signing, just next year youll have a year less of team control to hold over the opposing teams head.

And just because i wanted flaherty doesnt mean that taking Alcantara and getting more prospects was a bad deal. Getting flaherty likely meant getting a lesser additional return, so i dont blame the team at all for trying to get more prospect depth in a truly terrible all around system as well as taking a risk for a possible top of the rotation arm that most rankings dont actually separate all that much in Flaherty and Alcantara.