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Thread: Marlins 2017-2018 Offseason Discussion Thread

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    Quote Originally Posted by sports24/7 View Post
    This system certainly . needs quantity, but they need quality far more. The quantity will come with the number of players they're about to deal. If you don't get quality, the rebuild will be worthless. This team will never be a major player in free agency, so if you ever want to be a contender, you need to build with young talent like the Cubs and Astros did.

    I don't see how you trade Stanton and don't get back either of a team's top 2 prospects. I don't see how you trade him and don't get a top 25 prospect, period, unless you are getting a young talented MLB player. You're talking about the likely MVP who just entered his prime. Yes, it's a big deal, but that's why you eat some of it. You cannot let that be prohibitive here in getting back a great return. A good GM would make sure that happens. I'm not sure Miami has a good GM, though.

    As for his NTC. That is a factor only if you let it be. The Marlins ultimately have the bargaining power here. Stanton doesn't want to spend the rest of his prime on a rebuilding team. If he says he only wants to go to LA or SF, I'm calling his bluff. I just don't buy that he's going to turn down going to a contender. I'm cool with trying to get him to a preferred spot if the return is fair, but I'm not going to let that hurt his value.
    Title of the article is

    Cardinals,other teams know Stanton "has all the power"


    http://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseb...70d990442.html

    I really wish national guys would do their homework because people in Miami seem to think the Marlins have it all!!

    They are talking to teams NOT on Stanton's list right now but looks like they are shooting for the moon(reason why Boston is looking at JD Martinez now).

    - - - - - - - - - -

    Other news

    How the hell do we hold onto Justin Bour?? 10 teams are looking at 1B-Boston,Seattle,Cleveland,St Louis,Tampa,Texas,KC,NY Mets and all AL teams can use a power hitting DH. After Hosmer,LoMo and Santana he would be a nice option. Trade him for pitching and sign a cheap vet 1B or play DD there

    Dee Gordon
    https://www.fanragsports.com/heyman-...e-gordon-best/

    Dan Straily is getting bites but as predicted most teams are waiting till after FA sign. He is gonna be a hot name at the Winter Meetings and we are looking for a package like we gave for him. Something to watch is Dee Gordon AND Straily to Milwaukee,they had discussions at the trade deadline before they got Neil Walker.
    Last edited by tjfla; 11-14-2017 at 10:29 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tjfla View Post
    Title of the article is

    Cardinals,other teams know Stanton "has all the power"


    http://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseb...70d990442.html

    I really wish national guys would do their homework because people in Miami seem to think the Marlins have it all!!

    They are talking to teams NOT on Stanton's list right now but looks like they are shooting for the moon(reason why Boston is looking at JD Martinez now).

    - - - - - - - - - -

    Other news

    How the hell do we hold onto Justin Bour?? 10 teams are looking at 1B-Boston,Seattle,Cleveland,St Louis,Tampa,Texas,KC,NY Mets and all AL teams can use a power hitting DH. After Hosmer,LoMo and Santana he would be a nice option. Trade him for pitching and sign a cheap vet 1B or play DD there

    Dee Gordon
    https://www.fanragsports.com/heyman-...e-gordon-best/

    Dan Straily is getting bites but as predicted most teams are waiting till after FA sign. He is gonna be a hot name at the Winter Meetings and we are looking for a package like we gave for him. Something to watch is Dee Gordon AND Straily to Milwaukee,they had discussions at the trade deadline before they got Neil Walker.
    The number of other 1B options out there limit our leverage with Bour. But it would depend on how large of a contract those guys are looking for.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rmc523 View Post
    The number of other 1B options out there limit our leverage with Bour. But it would depend on how large of a contract those guys are looking for.
    Well if u dont wanna spend 50+million for Santana or Hosmer it doesn't. If u are Seattle would u rather spend 50 million on Santana OR spend 50 million on Bour and Otani? After the Top 3 are off the board he is a nice option for AL teams. Cheap Controllable Power

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    Id be cool with keeping Bour for another year and just either trading him at the deadline or next offseason or just keeping him for a while if we cant get the package we like. He is a good power bat and is really cheap for quite a while.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tjfla View Post
    Title of the article is

    Cardinals,other teams know Stanton "has all the power"


    http://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseb...70d990442.html

    I really wish national guys would do their homework because people in Miami seem to think the Marlins have it all!!

    They are talking to teams NOT on Stanton's list right now but looks like they are shooting for the moon(reason why Boston is looking at JD Martinez now).
    Well, if Derrick Goold of the St. Louis Dispatch says it's true, I guess I shouldn't argue with him, lol. A good FO doesn't get held hostage by this, plain and simple. You do not have to trade him. If you can make Stanton believe that is a real option, you take back some control. You're never going to be able to trade him to any team you like, but letting his value plummet by letting him dictate only 2 options, is not doing your job.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sports24/7 View Post
    Well, if Derrick Goold of the St. Louis Dispatch says it's true, I guess I shouldn't argue with him, lol. A good FO doesn't get held hostage by this, plain and simple. You do not have to trade him. If you can make Stanton believe that is a real option, you take back some control. You're never going to be able to trade him to any team you like, but letting his value plummet by letting him dictate only 2 options, is not doing your job.
    Guess u read the article

    As Avila’s and the 29 other front offices gathered Monday at the Waldorf Astoria Orlando for the start of baseball’s GM meetings, the only presence bigger than slugger Giancarlo Stanton’s availability via trade is his no-trade clause. As one agent said in the hotel lobby Monday: “He has all the power; they have none.”

    Derrick Goold didn't say it everyone(agents/teams/reporters) at the meetings did. I just put it because no one believes it when one person says something

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    Quote Originally Posted by tjfla View Post
    Guess u read the article

    As Avila’s and the 29 other front offices gathered Monday at the Waldorf Astoria Orlando for the start of baseball’s GM meetings, the only presence bigger than slugger Giancarlo Stanton’s availability via trade is his no-trade clause. As one agent said in the hotel lobby Monday: “He has all the power; they have none.”

    Derrick Goold didn't say it everyone(agents/teams/reporters) at the meetings did. I just put it because no one believes it when one person says something
    One agent said that according to Goold. And even if that's the perception, that doesn't make it so. If Stanton truly had all of the power, he'd be a lock to go to the Dodgers or Giants. Miami wouldn't even be talking to anyone else, which reportedly is not the case. Again, maybe this front office is just as bad as the previous one, but a player with a long term should not have "all the power", if you have a good FO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sports24/7 View Post
    Well, if Derrick Goold of the St. Louis Dispatch says it's true, I guess I shouldn't argue with him, lol. A good FO doesn't get held hostage by this, plain and simple. You do not have to trade him. If you can make Stanton believe that is a real option, you take back some control. You're never going to be able to trade him to any team you like, but letting his value plummet by letting him dictate only 2 options, is not doing your job.
    exactly my point as to why he does hold a lot of power, but the marlins do too. He has already publicly lost leverage because he stated he doesnt want to be in a rebuilding situation. If he plays hardball and severely diminishes our potential return, he can stay here and be a fan favorite on a terrible team and opt out in a few years or just wait it out till the rebuild is complete and we are good again.

    Stanton holds all the power if you operate under the assumption that we have to trade him this offseason and will trade him this offseason no matter what. That's not the case. If we cant find the right deal or he fucks us around and overplays his hand, he can rot in RF for a terrible team for a few years.

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    Joe Frisaro‏Verified account
    @JoeFrisaro

    Source: Outfield prospect Heliot Ramos, #SFGiants No. 4 prospect according to @MLBPipeline is being discussed as a potential trade piece in a deal for Giancarlo Stanton. The Giants are among at least 4 teams interested in Stanton.

    - - - - - - - - - -

    Of course other stuff would be in it but Heliot Ramos has been the main guy if we deal with SF. Looks like if SF can trade a ML guy for some young cheap pieces we could be seeing a 3 way with Stanton to SF as they have the inside track cause they are on his trade list

    Also before people sh*t on Ramos. He is only 18 and far off(3 years atleast-2020) but probably should have been the AZL MVP as a 17 yr old

    http://www.milb.com/player/index.jsp...tting/2017/ALL

    - - - - - - - - - -

    https://www.fanragsports.com/heyman-...-want-stanton/

    The Marlins are also talking to teams about star second baseman Dee Gordon and also third baseman Martin Prado, and perhaps some relievers, as they endeavor to cut payroll and rebuild for the future.
    Last edited by tjfla; 11-14-2017 at 02:11 PM.

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    Giants plan seems to be try to trade Cueto or Samardzija for a young ML ready player and/or prospects that the Marlins like then flip them along with Heliot Ramos and 1 or 2 more prospects(Arroyo,Shaw,Suarez,Beede,or whoever else we like-they don't have high end BUT we have interest in a few of their minor league guys)

    Maybe Minnesota/Milwaukee/St Louis would like one of them instead of 100+ mil for Darvish/Arrietta? All 3 have Top end prospects and young ML ready players that we love and have tried to get before
    Last edited by tjfla; 11-14-2017 at 02:26 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tjfla View Post
    Giants plan seems to be try to trade Cueto or Samardzija for a young ML ready player and/or prospects that the Marlins like then flip them along with Heliot Ramos and 1 or 2 more prospects(Arroyo,Shaw,Suarez,Beede,or whoever else we like-they don't have high end BUT we have interest in a few of their minor league guys)

    Maybe Minnesota/Milwaukee/St Louis would like one of them instead of 100+ mil for Darvish/Arrietta? All 3 have Top end prospects and young ML ready players
    Going back to that fake cubs trade talked about, if the cubs can get someone like Cueto or Shark back and give up Happ, a package of Happ, Ramos, Arroyo, and Beede isnt terrible in the slightest relatively speaking.

    Or maybe, since the cubs need pitching too, they can be involved in a Straily deal too and maybe send Schwarber this way and he could be our 1b for the next few years? He's a DH but his hitting ability is worth it if he can play a reasonable 1b. Schwarber, Happ, Ramos, Beede, and maybe one more guy for Straily and Stanton? Dont know how realistic that is but id be cool with that. Then trade Gordon, Bour, Ozuna, Bearclaw, etc for prospects? Id like that team.

    I do like Ramos though. He seems like a player.
    Last edited by fish16; 11-14-2017 at 02:30 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fish16 View Post
    Going back to that fake cubs trade talked about, if the cubs can get someone like Cueto or Shark back and give up Happ, a package of Happ, Ramos, Arroyo, and Beede isnt terrible in the slightest relatively speaking.

    Or maybe, since the cubs need pitching too, they can be involved in a Straily deal too and maybe send Schwarber this way and he could be our 1b for the next few years? He's a DH but his hitting ability is worth it if he can play a reasonable 1b. Schwarber, Happ, Ramos, Beede, and maybe one more guy for Straily and Stanton? Dont know how realistic that is but id be cool with that. Then trade Gordon, Bour, Ozuna, Bearclaw, etc for prospects? Id like that team.

    I do like Ramos though. He seems like a player.
    Thats what they seem to be trying to do. Trade 3 or 4 of their own prospects and then a SP for more from another team. We could actually get between 5-7 players for Stanton even tho not exactly "high end"

    Doubtful SF wants to lose a contract if they get Stanton that's why they are so interested in it. They get rid of a SP that costs 20 million+ and get things that help them get Stanton

    The question is for all these teams is do u wanna pay 5/100+ for a FA or 60-80 million for a SF SP?

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    Quote Originally Posted by tjfla View Post
    Thats what they seem to be trying to do. Trade 3 or 4 of their own prospects and then a SP for more from another team. We could actually get between 5-7 players for Stanton even tho not exactly "high end"

    Doubtful SF wants to lose a contract if they get Stanton that's why they are so interested in it. They get rid of a SP that costs 20 million+ and get things that help them get Stanton

    The question is for all these teams is do u wanna pay 5/100+ for a FA or 60-80 million for a SF SP?
    I doubt Samardzjia or cueto have much value right now, though.

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    Heliot Ramos and the package they'd get for Cueto is a poor return for Stanton. But I'm sure that's what this front office will get. I can't wait for more of the same under this ownership group. I guess we're going to have to hope they can turn some of the high picks they'll inevitably have over the next several years into good players.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fish16 View Post
    I doubt Samardzjia or cueto have much value right now, though.
    Just say St Louis misses out on a Top 3 FA SP u don't think they would look out to SF and say wanna try a 3 way with Miami??

    SF-Stanton
    St Louis-Cueto/Ziegler(cash)
    Miami-Heliot Ramos,Christian Arroyo,Andrew Suarez,Dakota Hudson,Junior Fernandez,OF from St Louis,and low level prospects

    Same with Milwaukee or Minnesota who already have said they want a Front end SP. U arent getting Top prospects back but u can get some solid stuff

    - - - - - - - - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by sports24/7 View Post
    Heliot Ramos and the package they'd get for Cueto is a poor return for Stanton. But I'm sure that's what this front office will get. I can't wait for more of the same under this ownership group. I guess we're going to have to hope they can turn some of the high picks they'll inevitably have over the next several years into good players.
    Well Boston has turned attention to JD Martinez,he still hasn't said Yes to St Louis and no chance in hell he goes to Philly(4 teams in on him-SF,St Louis,Boston,Philly). So options are SF or stays in Miami

    From Heyman article-“Stay tuned,” an executive with another team said. “They are serious about moving this deal.”

    The Marlins are thought to most prefer pitchers back in return, but Marlins people are open to any sort of talent, as they want to bolster an overall depth issue – and cut expense.


    I know its only 1 executive and quality over quantity!!!

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    I just dont think those teams would give up much for the cueto or Samardjia deal. Look how bad the Samadzjia deal is. And cueto was really bad last year.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fish16 View Post
    I just dont think those teams would give up much for the cueto or Samardjia deal. Look how bad the Samadzjia deal is. And cueto was really bad last year.
    That much? Its pretty much what we gave up for Straily LY. The only difference is St Louis gives up 1 of their 8 MLB Ready OF's and gets Brad Ziegler for 3 million

    2 AA SP and a MLB Ready OF for a proven #2/3 SP who doesn't cost over 100 million

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    Quote Originally Posted by tjfla View Post
    That much? Its pretty much what we gave up for Straily LY. The only difference is St Louis gives up 1 of their 8 MLB Ready OF's and gets Brad Ziegler for 3 million

    2 AA SP and a MLB Ready OF for a proven #2/3 SP who doesn't cost over 100 million
    oh i was referring to a happ/possible schwarber trade and the cubs taking them on. Didnt even look at your proposal. Not crazy about that return. IF we could include the cubs and find a way to get Happ involved in could be into that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fish16 View Post
    oh i was referring to a happ/possible schwarber trade and the cubs taking them on. Didnt even look at your proposal. Not crazy about that return. IF we could include the cubs and find a way to get Happ involved in could be into that.
    O ya I dont think the Cubs would do that I was talking more about to St Louis,Milwaukee,Minnesota,Philly,Texas who misses out on a Top 3 FA SP

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    Quote Originally Posted by tjfla View Post
    O ya I dont think the Cubs would do that I was talking more about to St Louis,Milwaukee,Minnesota,Philly,Texas who misses out on a Top 3 FA SP
    I'd just like to acquire one top of the rotation potential arm in a stanton deal, because I think once we combine that with a huge package that we will inevitably get for Ozuna, whether its pitching or hitting, that will kick off the rebuild very nicely.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fish16 View Post
    I'd just like to acquire one top of the rotation potential arm in a stanton deal, because I think once we combine that with a huge package that we will inevitably get for Ozuna, whether its pitching or hitting, that will kick off the rebuild very nicely.
    Again it doesn't seem to matter to Jeter anymore

    The Marlins are thought to most prefer pitchers back in return, but Marlins people are open to any sort of talent, as they want to bolster an overall depth issue – and cut expense.

    They can shoot for pitchers in the Ozuna deal where instead of 4 teams the market will be 24 teams. At this point they just want talent for Stanton and start building the system

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    Quote Originally Posted by tjfla View Post
    Again it doesn't seem to matter to Jeter anymore

    The Marlins are thought to most prefer pitchers back in return, but Marlins people are open to any sort of talent, as they want to bolster an overall depth issue – and cut expense.

    They can shoot for pitchers in the Ozuna deal where instead of 4 teams the market will be 24 teams. At this point they just want talent for Stanton and start building the system
    I understand their rationale, just saying mine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fish16 View Post
    I understand their rationale, just saying mine.
    I aint trying to argue with u or anyone just saying what I hear and see. They have been saying it for a week nowbehind the scenes-they want pitching but the farm system is so bad they will take any talent they can get.

    Just like I said yesterday even tho they mention a 90 million budget for 2018 and 2019 they would prefer it to be between 60-75 million actually but don't wanna say anything to piss off the public

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    Quote Originally Posted by tjfla View Post



    Well Boston has turned attention to JD Martinez,he still hasn't said Yes to St Louis and no chance in hell he goes to Philly(4 teams in on him-SF,St Louis,Boston,Philly). So options are SF or stays in Miami
    If those are the options, and I'm running the FO, I say "enjoy the rebuild Giancarlo" and wait for him to inevitably change his tune, or hold out for the trade deadline, when hopefully the Dodgers come calling. If you get held hostage, and take a shitty deal, you're screwing this franchise over.

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    http://www.nbcsports.com/boston/red-...tely-open-mind

    The Red Sox may not be Giancarlo Stanton’s No. 1 choice, but he hasn’t ruled out them or anyone else as a potential destination at this point, a person with knowledge of Stanton’s thinking told NBC Sports Boston on Tuesday.

    The Marlins slugger, a bona fide star, is said to have a “completely” open mind about teams interested to trade for him, and is actively trying to be thoughtful about the process — one he ultimately controls because of a full no-trade clause.

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