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Thread: Marlins 2017-2018 Offseason Discussion Thread

  1. #401
    eHe-Cha-Varia

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    Hey guys Darth Jeter doesn’t want to answer questions about Stanton so please stop.

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    Mish says names discussed with Giants: Panik, Shaw, and Beede for Stanton and Gordon.

    https://twitter.com/CraigMish/status/932614397452804098
    Last edited by fauowls44; 11-20-2017 at 09:34 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fauowls44 View Post
    Mish says names discussed with Giants: Panik, Shaw, and Beede for Stanton and Gordon.

    https://twitter.com/CraigMish/status/932614397452804098
    Mish is somewhat right. SF has given us an option to take 2 of 4 prospects-Shaw,Arroyo,Beede,Suarez. Chris Shaw was mentioned as one last week,which is why I said something about this is the time to trade Bour. Shaw would replace Bour at 1B

    However Miami isn't to interested in the deal. They want Stanton and Gordon for Ramos,Beede,Shaw and Panik.(They actually prefer Stanton for Ramos,Shaw and other prospects/stuff from another team but SF knows they are only team right now so nothing yet). Also we would send LESS money to SF if we did a deal with them

    This is the trade they really want
    Jon Morosi of MLB Network reports that the Cardinals have made a formal trade offer to the Marlins for slugger Giancarlo Stanton.

    The Cards formal offer is Stanton and cash for ML Ready SP(Reyes or Flaherty),SP(Hudson,Fernandez,Gallen,Gomber),OF(Gr ichuk,Bader,Sierra,Garcia)and possibly a low level prospect or 2(depending on who we get)

    They are dying to do a trade with St Louis however are still waiting for Stanton to OK it before they do. If Stanton puts St Louis on his list at any time don't be surprised to see a trade quickly after-they already have agreed on alot of things in it

    Boston is also expected to make a "formal offer" and LAD are too however they are far off(We asked for Buehler or Alvarez and Mitchell White plus more but were told NO so?) with both teams.
    Last edited by tjfla; 11-20-2017 at 10:20 AM.

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    Mish reporting that Cards are offering a deal including Alcantara. Any deal with the cards needs to include one of Reyes, Weaver, or Flaherty.

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    Joe Panik being the centerpiece of the alleged San Fran offer is hilarious.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Namaste View Post
    Joe Panik being the centerpiece of the alleged San Fran offer is hilarious.
    I think Beede would be considered the "centerpiece", but that deal would be more of a complete salary dump whereas STL would be an actual deal for talent. I hope we dont do the pure salary dump. Get back as much frontline starting pitching as humanly possible.

    Not that this would be the point of the move, but I think Panik is a better player than Gordon.

    - - - - - - - - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by tjfla View Post
    Huh? St Louis can now even offer the pick and draft pool $ in a Stanton deal too. Y would we have to trade our pick to another team? They want as much $/picks as they can get
    I thought you were referring to the marlins trading that compensation pick as incentive to get another team to take more of stanton's contract. Wouldnt make much sense, but we've traded first round type picks for guys like Bryan Morris before.

    - - - - - - - - - -

    If we were to do that trade with the Giants, i'd love for us to see if we can get Cueto here with a significant portion of his deal paid off. He is a future HOF pitcher at this pace for his career and his one bad year was last year and he was injured a bunch. It would obviously be entirely reliant on a payoff of part of his contract from the giants, but that wouldnt be a terrible move to try and acquire an ace type pitcher.

    Realistically though the giants wouldnt do that and that would be a pure salary dump.

    - - - - - - - - - -

    Further on Joe Panik, not that he is anything special, but he is cost controlled in arbitration for the next 3 years, and his home/road splits suggest he was really brought down by AT&T park a lot. Not that we are this hitters paradise, but he had a .719 OPS with just 7 HR"s there over the last 3 years as opposed to an .802 OPS on the road with 21 HR's over the last 3 years with just 30 more AB's coming on the road.


    I prefer him over Dee Gordon. Also he has a phenomenal career K/BB ratio and would be a really nice leadoff or 2 hitter, even if we lose Dee's speed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fish16 View Post
    Mish reporting that Cards are offering a deal including Alcantara. Any deal with the cards needs to include one of Reyes, Weaver, or Flaherty.
    Ya meant to include him in that 2nd SP. Thats why I said 1 or 2 more prospects maybe. St Louis gave us a list for the 2nd SP and OF and depending who we take could get us more

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    Quote Originally Posted by tjfla View Post
    Ya meant to include him in that 2nd SP. Thats why I said 1 or 2 more prospects maybe. St Louis gave us a list for the 2nd SP and OF and depending who we take could get us more
    So alcantara wouldnt be the lead prospect, correct? That would be a terrible trade. Id prefer Hudson as the 2nd SP, but as the 2nd SP alcantara wouldnt be terrible. Reminds me way too much of Eovaldi, but as long as we get one of Reyes, Flaherty, or Weaver, im cool with it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fish16 View Post
    I think Beede would be considered the "centerpiece", but that deal would be more of a complete salary dump whereas STL would be an actual deal for talent. I hope we dont do the pure salary dump. Get back as much frontline starting pitching as humanly possible.

    Not that this would be the point of the move, but I think Panik is a better player than Gordon.

    - - - - - - - - - -



    I thought you were referring to the marlins trading that compensation pick as incentive to get another team to take more of stanton's contract. Wouldnt make much sense, but we've traded first round type picks for guys like Bryan Morris before.

    - - - - - - - - - -

    If we were to do that trade with the Giants, i'd love for us to see if we can get Cueto here with a significant portion of his deal paid off. He is a future HOF pitcher at this pace for his career and his one bad year was last year and he was injured a bunch. It would obviously be entirely reliant on a payoff of part of his contract from the giants, but that wouldnt be a terrible move to try and acquire an ace type pitcher.

    Realistically though the giants wouldnt do that and that would be a pure salary dump.

    - - - - - - - - - -

    Further on Joe Panik, not that he is anything special, but he is cost controlled in arbitration for the next 3 years, and his home/road splits suggest he was really brought down by AT&T park a lot. Not that we are this hitters paradise, but he had a .719 OPS with just 7 HR"s there over the last 3 years as opposed to an .802 OPS on the road with 21 HR's over the last 3 years with just 30 more AB's coming on the road.


    I prefer him over Dee Gordon. Also he has a phenomenal career K/BB ratio and would be a really nice leadoff or 2 hitter, even if we lose Dee's speed.
    They really dont consider the SF offer serious right now but Panik would be the centerpiece of the deal. Now if SF will do Stanton,Gordon and like 20 million in Cash for Panik,Ramos,Shaw,Beede they would consider it serious

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    I like Panik and the rest of those pieces individually, but not in a stanton deal. We need frontline starting pitching for Stanton. God i hope he will accept a STL trade. Perfect trade partners for him and are willing to take on his contract and have so much fucking pitching in their system.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fish16 View Post
    So alcantara wouldnt be the lead prospect, correct? That would be a terrible trade. Id prefer Hudson as the 2nd SP, but as the 2nd SP alcantara wouldnt be terrible. Reminds me way too much of Eovaldi, but as long as we get one of Reyes, Flaherty, or Weaver, im cool with it.
    From what I heard NO but who the hell knows with this FO. Maybe if St Louis would ask for 20 million instead of 50 million and give more prospects Alcantara would be the centerpiece SP. He is ML Ready and throws 100+. The sources in the bathroom tell me the "formal offer" was 2 SP,position player(OF or even SS Diaz) and lesser prospects. We like the offer more than SF but he hasn't listed them yet so

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    Quote Originally Posted by tjfla View Post
    From what I heard NO but who the hell knows with this FO. Maybe if St Louis would ask for 20 million instead of 50 million and give more prospects Alcantara would be the centerpiece SP. He is ML Ready and throws 100+. The sources in the bathroom tell me the "formal offer" was 2 SP,position player(OF or even SS Diaz) and lesser prospects. We like the offer more than SF but he hasn't listed them yet so
    wtf are they waiting for to ask him? Or at least give their front office a chance to pitch him on playing there. makes no sense to do all this without knowing one way or the other whether he would accept a trade there. And if that 30 million comes over the course of the rest of his contract, they better pay the money and get the better prospects. That is not a hugely significant amount of money over the course of that long of a period of time. Not to mention, as new owners, if youre gonna trade Stanton you need to be getting the best possible haul and not fight over 30 million over 10 years or whatever it is. You cant walk away from a trade with STL without getting one of those top pitching prospects. Alcantara or hudson needs to be the second SP.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fish16 View Post
    I like Panik and the rest of those pieces individually, but not in a stanton deal. We need frontline starting pitching for Stanton. God i hope he will accept a STL trade. Perfect trade partners for him and are willing to take on his contract and have so much fucking pitching in their system.
    SF deal isn't that bad other than Beede as the pitcher u get.

    Panik is new 2B
    Chris Shaw is new 1B and u trade Bour to a team who misses on Hosmer or Santana for pitching
    Heliot Ramos becomes #2 Prospect in system
    Tyler Beede #5 SP? He will be 25 in May

    - - - - - - - - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by fish16 View Post
    wtf are they waiting for to ask him? Or at least give their front office a chance to pitch him on playing there. makes no sense to do all this without knowing one way or the other whether he would accept a trade there. And if that 30 million comes over the course of the rest of his contract, they better pay the money and get the better prospects. That is not a hugely significant amount of money over the course of that long of a period of time. Not to mention, as new owners, if youre gonna trade Stanton you need to be getting the best possible haul and not fight over 30 million over 10 years or whatever it is. You cant walk away from a trade with STL without getting one of those top pitching prospects. Alcantara or hudson needs to be the second SP.
    They have asked multiple times but nothing yet. U will know when and IF he says yes because everybody will be reporting that he is headed there. They like the St Louis offer more but at they are fine with the SF offer that Mish said(if Ramos is included)

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    Quote Originally Posted by tjfla View Post
    SF deal isn't that bad other than Beede as the pitcher u get.

    Panik is new 2B
    Chris Shaw is new 1B and u trade Bour to a team who misses on Hosmer or Santana for pitching
    Heliot Ramos becomes #2 Prospect in system
    Tyler Beede #5 SP? He will be 25 in May
    I wouldnt be upset with that deal, it would just be last in my preference of deals to take considering the teams who are supposedly interested. The giants are the last team on his list who i would want to deal with. That is a decent haul, as you get 2 starting position players, a good prospect in ramos, and a solid pitching prospect in Beede, I just dont think Beede is a top of the rotation guy, and id prefer us get a potential frontline starter because if we can get one for Stanton it really opens up the possibilities for guys like bour or Ozuna or even Straily.

    But ya, that isnt a terrible deal at all if you get them to take a majority of his contract. Ramos is like 3-4 years away though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fish16 View Post
    I wouldnt be upset with that deal, it would just be last in my preference of deals to take considering the teams who are supposedly interested. The giants are the last team on his list who i would want to deal with. That is a decent haul, as you get 2 starting position players, a good prospect in ramos, and a solid pitching prospect in Beede, I just dont think Beede is a top of the rotation guy, and id prefer us get a potential frontline starter because if we can get one for Stanton it really opens up the possibilities for guys like bour or Ozuna or even Straily.

    But ya, that isnt a terrible deal at all if you get them to take a majority of his contract. Ramos is like 3-4 years away though.
    They would take the majority of his deal and Dee's deal too. Beede isn't a Top of the Rotation but hes ML Ready. Like said it depends on if Ramos is in the deal

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    Quote Originally Posted by tjfla View Post
    They would take the majority of his deal and Dee's deal too. Beede isn't a Top of the Rotation but hes ML Ready. Like said it depends on if Ramos is in the deal
    I understand that he's ML ready, but IMO that shouldnt really be the priority. We are not going to contend for the next 2 years or so, so we might as well get the highest potential arms we can get, even if they need another year of minor league seasoning. Or in the cardinals context, get both a high potential arm AND a ML ready arm.

    Like I said i wouldnt mind that giants offer, just think we should aim much higher.

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    One thing about the St Louis deal. Even tho Alcantara has been mentioned in the 2nd SP group maybe they make him the centerpiece and get more prospects? St Louis has alot of prospects and Jeter/Denbo keep talking about getting depth in the system,Alcantara as the centerpiece could mean they are looking at quantity over quality?

    Instead of 2 SP(Flaherty/Hudson) maybe they try to get 3 or 4 SP(Alcantara,Hudson,Gallen)? Something like they did with Seattle-they had agree on Max Povse and right before the deal they switched it to Brandon Miller and Pablo Lopez

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    Quote Originally Posted by tjfla View Post
    One thing about the St Louis deal. Even tho Alcantara has been mentioned in the 2nd SP group maybe they make him the centerpiece and get more prospects? St Louis has alot of prospects and Jeter/Denbo keep talking about getting depth in the system,Alcantara as the centerpiece could mean they are looking at quantity over quality?

    Instead of 2 SP(Flaherty/Hudson) maybe they try to get 3 or 4 SP(Alcantara,Hudson,Gallen)? Something like they did with Seattle-they had agree on Max Povse and right before the deal they switched it to Brandon Miller and Pablo Lopez
    Id be cool with getting a very deep system through other trades, but if you have the opportunity to not only shed a significant portion of stanton's contract, but also pick up a frontline starter, you do that right away. I think the depth could come through trades of guys like straily, Bour, maybe Barraclough. those are guys that arent going to get you a star prospect, but you might be able to build your depth through trading those guys. Just my preference though. Really excited to see how this offseason turns out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Namaste View Post
    Joe Panik being the centerpiece of the alleged San Fran offer is hilarious.
    Panik being the centerpiece of a Stanton deal is hilarious. For Stanton AND Gordon? That would be just an amazingly awful start for this new ownership group.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fish16 View Post
    Id be cool with getting a very deep system through other trades, but if you have the opportunity to not only shed a significant portion of stanton's contract, but also pick up a frontline starter, you do that right away. I think the depth could come through trades of guys like straily, Bour, maybe Barraclough. those are guys that arent going to get you a star prospect, but you might be able to build your depth through trading those guys. Just my preference though. Really excited to see how this offseason turns out.
    Well right now they have 2 options-

    SF-Stanton and Gordon with some cash(20 mil)
    Mia-Panik,Shaw,Beede(possibly Heliot Ramos)

    If Stanton won't put St Louis on list I think they come back to SF and say we will throw in more cash but Ramos MUST be included. In this deal they then ship Bour out for more pitching

    St Louis-Stanton and more cash(50 mil)(Possible Zeigler)
    Miami-Sandy Alcantara,Dakota Hudson,Zac Gallen or another arm Miami loves(St Louis has ML ready ones and mid level),OF or Aledyms Diaz and 2 lower level prospects

    If Stanton puts St Louis on the list then Miami goes for quantity but gets 3 close to ML ready arms,a ML position player and lower level guys for depth
    Last edited by tjfla; 11-20-2017 at 12:33 PM.

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