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Thread: Trade Deadline Watch 2017

  1. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by fauowls44 View Post
    I would hope MLB wouldn't allow franchise changing decisions to be made by people on their way out the door. Hopefully there is a buyer chosen before the deadline so the new owner can have say in whatever goes on.
    Well thats why they have an "agreement". New owners dont want Jeff making decisions and even if when a new owner is chosen it will be months before he is actually in control. They had hoped to have something done already so they could trade guys like Ozuna/Bour but this way works out alot better. They could still trade guys like Bour but highly doubtful unless the deal is so nuts they have too

    They dont mind him making decision on guys who will be gone next year or are FA next year(since still a possiblity he will own the team next year and have to pay those guys) but not on guys like Ozuna,Bour,Straily,JT,Urena,Wittgren,Rojas who are all still "cheap".
    Last edited by tjfla; 07-16-2017 at 11:45 AM.

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    I dont understand trading Stanton as a salary dump. You would think he is making 40+ million a year and not playing the way he is talked about. He is definitely overpaid, but as long as he is playing he is a star/borderline MVP type player. Dont dump that for salary reasons. IF you want to give him up in a rebuild for good prospects, fine, but for salary reasons only I am not a fan of that in the slightest, especially given Yelich is on a completely opposite contract that is incredibly team friendly. Their combined production for their combined salary is a good deal, especially when Yelich inevitably finishes this year on a roll and ends up with his normal numbers.

    I'd understand Bour and Ozuna if you try to sell high given that they have 2+ years of team control, but not just dumping Stanton for salary reasons as long as he is on the field.

  3. #203
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    Agreed on all of that. Dumping Stanton would be the 2nd worst move the Marlins have ever made based on the totality of the situation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fish16 View Post
    I dont understand trading Stanton as a salary dump. You would think he is making 40+ million a year and not playing the way he is talked about. He is definitely overpaid, but as long as he is playing he is a star/borderline MVP type player. Dont dump that for salary reasons. IF you want to give him up in a rebuild for good prospects, fine, but for salary reasons only I am not a fan of that in the slightest, especially given Yelich is on a completely opposite contract that is incredibly team friendly. Their combined production for their combined salary is a good deal, especially when Yelich inevitably finishes this year on a roll and ends up with his normal numbers.

    I'd understand Bour and Ozuna if you try to sell high given that they have 2+ years of team control, but not just dumping Stanton for salary reasons as long as he is on the field.
    The salary dump has to do with the length of the deal not the cash. U dont wanna rebuild for 5 years and have a 36 yr old slugger make 75 million in 3 years while the rest of the team is 23 and younger.

    Now if we were an Atlanta or SD who are rebuilding now and in 2 years will be ready to go u would love to have Stanton around. His contract cash wise isnt bad at all especially if he keeps playing like he has this year

    If he tells teams he is willing to opt out,his market gets even bigger and we could even get good prospects in return but if he doesnt agree to and will only approve trades to the West Coast its a straight salary dump

    - - - - - - - - - -

    People dont seem to realize the new way to rebuild is from the ground up. Baseball is like basketball,fans think u trade 4 or 5 guys and thats a rebuild-no owner wants to be stuck in the middle which is what happens alot with rebuilds like that(See Orlando Magic-rebuilding but instead of sucking they try to get NBA players and now are stuck in the middle)

    The way to rebuild is get rid of everything and over the next 4/5 years suck. Just look at the Cubs and Houston 5 years ago/Atlanta and SD the past 2. They sucked badly for awhile and now are doing stuff. Atlanta should suck this year but NL East is so bad they can't. This is the way new owners do stuff now and supposedly what we will be doing

    A new example is what the White Sox are doing-Quintana was still kinda young but they wanna build around Moncada and the younger arms who are 21/22 so they traded a guy who while is good will be 30/31 by time they are ready for 2 guys who will be 22/23. They have told teams everyone over 26 or so can be had for guys 22 and younger
    Last edited by tjfla; 07-16-2017 at 01:26 PM.

  5. #205
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    The Nats just traded for Doolittle and Madson from Oakland for Treinen and 2 of their top 10 prospects. That has to increase the value of our relievers and set the market.

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    Ya they got a very nice return but i think those 2 arms both might be better than anyone we are trading.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fish16 View Post
    Ya they got a very nice return but i think those 2 arms both might be better than anyone we are trading.
    Not saying those were the exact names but heard they offered package like that to us(Luzardo was in it) for Ramos and Phelps. Frisaro said we were engaged in substative talks with them right before the trade

    Should break them up when traded(can get more for guys ill take AJ/AJ Ellis to Colorado and Phelps to ?) but just shows the RP will be hot again especially ones who are under contract for next year. Treinen is 7 years younger than Madson and cheaper while Neuse is a solid 22 yr old 3B who will be in AA next year and Luzardo is very young SP who is off of TJ,looks great in GCL and should be moving up the prospect lists next year

    Dont worry alot of teams are all over our RP-hearing Tazawa is actually picking up steam from a few teams with the way he has looked. Also on Phelps,a number of teams are considering him a SP. Just take that into consderation
    Last edited by tjfla; 07-16-2017 at 02:57 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fish16 View Post
    Ya they got a very nice return but i think those 2 arms both might be better than anyone we are trading.
    I don't necessarily think that's the case. Ramos and Phelps should have tremendous value to contending teams and both are controllable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tjfla View Post
    Not saying those were the exact names but heard they offered package like that to us(Luzardo was in it) for Ramos and Phelps. Frisaro said we were engaged in substative talks with them right before the trade

    Should break them up when traded(can get more for guys ill take AJ/AJ Ellis to Colorado and Phelps to ?) but just shows the RP will be hot again especially ones who are under contract for next year. Treinen is 7 years younger than Madson and cheaper while Neuse is a solid 22 yr old 3B who will be in AA next year and Luzardo is very young SP who is off of TJ,looks great in GCL and should be moving up the prospect lists next year

    Dont worry alot of teams are all over our RP-hearing Tazawa is actually picking up steam from a few teams with the way he has looked. Also on Phelps,a number of teams are considering him a SP. Just take that into consderation
    That makes me wonder - with how bad the rotation has been, I'm surprised we haven't put Phelps in the rotation like we did last year.

  10. #210
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    I think stantons contract won't look too bad in a year or two. After Harper signs his 40+ Million a year contract Stantons will be alright.
    "You owe it to yourself to find your own unorthodox way of succeeding, or sometimes, just surviving."
    - Michael Johnson


    J.T. Realmuto .282/.351/.412

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    Quote Originally Posted by rmc523 View Post
    That makes me wonder - with how bad the rotation has been, I'm surprised we haven't put Phelps in the rotation like we did last year.
    Been saying this since spring training. Makes no sense to me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralph View Post
    I think stantons contract won't look too bad in a year or two. After Harper signs his 40+ Million a year contract Stantons will be alright.
    Yeah that's the biggest question mark. There's NBA contracts that were signed in 2010 that people questioned that would look like absolute steals today.

    That said the team has gotten the best possible deal out of Stanton so far, and 7 years $210 million paid to him is going to hurt the payroll bad. If you find an owner willing to spend you do what you can to keep Stanton, but if there's going to be budget restrictions it doesn't hurt to see the value Stanton has on the open market based on his contract.

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    Quote Originally Posted by żNICK? View Post
    Been saying this since spring training. Makes no sense to me.
    I honestly didn't even think about it until reading that post.

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    Nightengale says 10 teams IN(not just called but actually talking) on Phelps and add another team to Dee Gordon. Philly likes him and Toronto still very interested


    I hope we trade like 5 or 6 RP-the RP market is nuts right now.

    Some of those 10 teams consider Phelps a SP and Koehler/Volquez have gotten some bites too

    Sucks we won't trade Ozuna,teams want a bat so badly they are fighting over JD Martinez who is a FA next year and offering some nice deals.

    Toronto seems to be really hot on Dee Gordon,don't be surprised if he is dealt there IF we can't trade Prado. DD/Rojas would be the 2B combo then

    Colorado is in on AJ Ramos,AJ Ellis,Tom Koehler and David Phelps
    Last edited by tjfla; 07-17-2017 at 02:12 PM.

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    No value right now but Jeff Locke is still in the system. He is in Jupiter working with Benedict

    Guys like Locke,Ziegler,Koehler,Volquez,Moore,Ellis and Ichiro are all candidates to be moved AFTER the deadline if even around still.

    Marlins strategy seems to be wait and hope contenders lose guys to injury
    Last edited by tjfla; 07-17-2017 at 02:18 PM.

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    Which isn't a bad strategy. There isn't any urgency to trade players until the end of July.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tjfla View Post
    No value right now but Jeff Locke is still in the system. He is in Jupiter working with Benedict

    Guys like Locke,Ziegler,Koehler,Volquez,Moore,Ellis and Ichiro are all candidates to be moved AFTER the deadline if even around still.

    Marlins strategy seems to be wait and hope contenders lose guys to injury
    Hopefully there will be more clarity on the ownership situation if they wait until next week too.

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    Assuming a "rebuild on the fly" strategy:

    The players under contract/club control for next season who will be in their age 30 season or higher:

    Bour (Arbitration Eligible - FA 2021)
    Gordon ($7.8 million, backloaded 5/$50 million with $14 million team option for 2021 - age 33 season)
    Prado (2018 - $13.5 million - $15 million owed 2019 - woof)
    Volquez (2018 - $13 million)
    Ramos (Arbitration Eligible 2019 FA)
    Phelps (Arbitration Eligible 2019 FA)
    Tazawa ($7 million)
    Ziegler ($9 million)
    Chen (Player option 2018 - 2020, 2021 vesting option, $52 million owed from 2018 - 2020, $16 mil vesting for 2021)
    Koehler (Arbitration Eligible 2019 FA)

    And only Prado and Volquez will be in their age 34 or higher season.

    Pending FA's:
    Ichiro
    McGowan
    Ellis

    Likely none of whom will be back (maybe Ichiro but I doubt it).

    They absolutely should move Ramos and Phelps. Both should bring back guys that make the organizational top-5, but that's also because the system is a mess. Maybe you move Bour if the Yankees are willing to overpay (thinking Kaprielian - he can join the rest of the rotation in rehabbing from TJ - or Bird + a take a flier live arm prospect), and the Marlins should be hounding the Red Sox or Yankees for Prado, even if all they do is eat the money. But beyond that I don't see the moves - nobody's taking Tazawa or Ziegler or Chen, moving Gordon just opens a new hole in the lineup because you then have to fill leadoff and 2B and there isn't a great internal option for either, and Volquez has been kind of in line with his career averages...can the team do better than him at $13 million for next season?

    It's pretty hard to justify a tear down because the core of the roster is just entering its prime. Yes, it is going to get expensive, but I struggle to understand paying in excess of 1.2 billion to basically put the final nail in the coffin of baseball in Miami. A new owner, another fire sale, that'd be it. Last one out turn off the lights.

  19. #219
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    I break them down into 4 categories:

    Should be traded:

    Ramos
    Phelps
    McGowan
    Prado

    Could be Traded but how much are we really going to get?:

    Volquez
    Ziegler
    Tazawa
    Ichiro
    Ellis
    Koehler
    Chen

    Could be Traded but have to be blown away:

    Bour
    Straily
    Gordon

    Shouldn't be Traded:

    Yelich
    Ozuna
    Stanton
    Realmuto

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    They actually have guys in house to replace Dee in DD and either Rojas or Riddle. Brian Anderson is ready to take over 3B,the issue is no team will pay Prado's whole contract

    I have been hearing we actually have been asking about young bats in trades

    - - - - - - - - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by żNICK? View Post
    I break them down into 4 categories:

    Should be traded:

    Ramos
    Phelps
    McGowan
    Prado

    Could be Traded but how much are we really going to get?:

    Volquez
    Ziegler
    Tazawa
    Ichiro
    Ellis
    Koehler
    Chen


    Could be Traded but have to be blown away:

    Bour
    Straily
    Gordon

    Shouldn't be Traded:

    Yelich
    Ozuna
    Stanton
    Realmuto
    Its not about what we get back its about getting rid of the salary really. Why have 90 million budget and win 70 games?

    Gordon and Prado are the same u arent getting anything back thats great but u aren't paying them either. Its not like Toronto is trade Guerrero or Bichette for him HAHA. Maybe if u trade Yelich or Ozuna with Gordon to Toronto u could get 1 of them
    Last edited by tjfla; 07-17-2017 at 03:04 PM.

  21. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by tjfla View Post
    They actually have guys in house to replace Dee in DD and either Rojas or Riddle. Brian Anderson is ready to take over 3B,the issue is no team will pay Prado's whole contract

    I have been hearing we actually have been asking about young bats in trades

    - - - - - - - - - -



    Its not about what we get back its about getting rid of the salary really
    Same difference. You could maybe split that category into two sub-categories. Those that won't provide anything of value. (Ichiro, Ellis, Koehler, Volquez) and those that we can't even expect to salary dump. (Chen, Ziegler, Tazawa)

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    Quote Originally Posted by tjfla View Post
    They actually have guys in house to replace Dee in DD and either Rojas or Riddle. Brian Anderson is ready to take over 3B,the issue is no team will pay Prado's whole contract

    I have been hearing we actually have been asking about young bats in trades

    - - - - - - - - - -



    Its not about what we get back its about getting rid of the salary really. Why have 90 million budget and win 70 games?

    Gordon and Prado are the same u arent getting anything back thats great but u aren't paying them either. Its not like Toronto is trade Guerrero or Bichette for him HAHA. Maybe if u trade Yelich or Ozuna with Gordon to Toronto u could get 1 of them
    Why? We clearly need pitching.

  23. #223
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    If we're targeting a bat a needs to be a bat that also plays shortstop.

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    They should be targeting the best prospects they can get regardless of position. All things being equal, it should be pitching.

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    Quote Originally Posted by żNICK? View Post
    If we're targeting a bat a needs to be a bat that also plays shortstop.
    Looks like the plan. Colorado we asked on IF Ryan McMahon(doubt we get him with the year he has had),Arizona we asked about MIF Leyba,IF Dawel Lugo and MIF Reinheimer and NYY we asked on MIF Tyler Wade

    - - - - - - - - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by sports24/7 View Post
    They should be targeting the best prospects they can get regardless of position. All things being equal, it should be pitching.
    They want pitching too but looks like they are interested in trying to get a ML Ready MIF. Will probably depend on the team they deal with but the goal is best prospect they can get. Doubt they will tell a team NO if they only offering arms-hard to be picky when u have the worst farm system in baseball
    Last edited by tjfla; 07-17-2017 at 07:54 PM.

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