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Thread: The Official Miami Marlins "Sale of the Team" Thread

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    Quote Originally Posted by fauowls44 View Post
    I can't figure out how to post a tweet but LeBatard tweeted that Manfred has told the owners that the team will hire a new COO and Samson is out as team President.
    you put the tweet number in [ tweet ] ##### [/ tweet ] without the spaces between the brackets and letters.

    This is excellent news - why it was even being considered that he'd stay is beyond me (or maybe it actually wasn't ever an option, but just reported as such). Now if we can just replace Hill.........though at least with him, I think that is a transition role - he stays on because he knows the players/organization, and they'll bring in someone new in a year or two.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rmc523 View Post
    you put the tweet number in [ tweet ] ##### [/ tweet ] without the spaces between the brackets and letters.

    This is excellent news - why it was even being considered that he'd stay is beyond me (or maybe it actually wasn't ever an option, but just reported as such). Now if we can just replace Hill.........though at least with him, I think that is a transition role - he stays on because he knows the players/organization, and they'll bring in someone new in a year or two.
    People expected him to stay on because he is signed next year for 5 Million(Now we know why Jeff couldn't expand the budget-he is paying the FO 25 million a year) and he is pretty good at kissing ass and all. Most expect him to be demoted to VP under Jeter but instead he will now just be sitting home collected 5 million. Should keep him around and make him President of Restrooms. Make him quit and get no cash

    As for Mike Hill he probably stays on as just the GM(NOT in Baseball Ops) until Jeter hires someone. U need someone to talk trades/contracts and go to meetings during the offseason. Mike Hill isn't great but he is decent as long as he doesn't have to make big decisions

    Actually most of the FO is expected to stay around in 2018-Hill,DelPiano,Berger,Meek while Jeter looks for his new VP of Baseball/GM

    - - - - - - - - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by fauowls44 View Post
    http://www.miamiherald.com/sports/sp...167837807.html

    Here's a good recap of what Rob Manfred had to say about the Marlins sale on the last day of the Owners' meetings.

    He apparently is as ready as the rest of us to move on from Loria. He says that MLB hopes to review and approve the deal quickly.

    Most importantly, he said that the financing structure presented will allow “them to close the transaction consistent with baseball’s rules.”

    He also didn't rule out other investors being added to the group.

    Bottom line is that we could be 6 weeks or so away from finally being rid of Loria.
    This is why they wanted a deal before Wed. MLB and other owners were sick of Jeff however they have to hold votes which if they didnt do now they would have to wait till Nov. Prelim votes were Wed with final vote by Oct/Nov. Jeter should be incharge by the Winter Meetings on Dec 10

    The investor stuff has to do with MLB not being happy with Dell's involvement. They prefer to have actually cash BUT with that being said they are willing to give them some room to get rid of Jeff. Deal is done just doing background work now
    Last edited by tjfla; 08-18-2017 at 09:25 AM.

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    I don't see why the front office would remain intact for a year. It doesn't take a year to put together a new regime. I have to think Jeter and the group have a list of candidates of who they want to hire at this point.

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    Mike Hill at least seems like a good dude unlike the rest of the clowns in our FO, but this transition should be scorched earth.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tjfla View Post
    People expected him to stay on because he is signed next year for 5 Million(Now we know why Jeff couldn't expand the budget-he is paying the FO 25 million a year) and he is pretty good at kissing ass and all. Most expect him to be demoted to VP under Jeter but instead he will now just be sitting home collected 5 million. Should keep him around and make him President of Restrooms. Make him quit and get no cash

    As for Mike Hill he probably stays on as just the GM(NOT in Baseball Ops) until Jeter hires someone. U need someone to talk trades/contracts and go to meetings during the offseason. Mike Hill isn't great but he is decent as long as he doesn't have to make big decisions

    Actually most of the FO is expected to stay around in 2018-Hill,DelPiano,Berger,Meek while Jeter looks for his new VP of Baseball/GM

    - - - - - - - - - -



    This is why they wanted a deal before Wed. MLB and other owners were sick of Jeff however they have to hold votes which if they didnt do now they would have to wait till Nov. Prelim votes were Wed with final vote by Oct/Nov. Jeter should be incharge by the Winter Meetings on Dec 10

    The investor stuff has to do with MLB not being happy with Dell's involvement. They prefer to have actually cash BUT with that being said they are willing to give them some room to get rid of Jeff. Deal is done just doing background work now
    Are other execs paid that much? Maybe guys like Theo that actually deserve it...

    This may be a stupid question, but what's the difference with a GM and baseball operations? I always thought it was just a way to add more to the title.

    Just add Mas to the group and call it a day...

    Quote Originally Posted by fauowls44 View Post
    I don't see why the front office would remain intact for a year. It doesn't take a year to put together a new regime. I have to think Jeter and the group have a list of candidates of who they want to hire at this point.
    I think it may depend on when the sale goes through/is finalized. If it's before/in time for the offseason, it wouldn't surprise me if they cleaned house from the beginning and brought in someone new. But if it happens later, I could see Hill & co. staying on. When the Dodgers were sold, they kept the existing front office for a few years before bringing in Andrew Friedman and the rest of them.

    - - - - - - - - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by żNICK? View Post
    Mike Hill at least seems like a good dude unlike the rest of the clowns in our FO, but this transition should be scorched earth.
    Yeah, he just kind of seems to be "there" with Loria and Samson being the bad guys (should we start a rumor that Hill is actually responsible for all the fire sales and Loria desperately wanted to keep everyone but Hill did it anyway?).

    I agree, though. I think the new ownership group would be best served to get rid of just about everyone associated with Loria's ownership, at least at the top/in the front office. Who knows, Hill might actually be competent at his job and just that limited/constricted by Loria to run things how they should be (draft, trades, free agents etc.), but he certainly hasn't done much in his time in charge.....terrible, questionable trades (even at the time, let alone now looking back) are perhaps the biggest red flag that come to mind. I've been waiting for Beinfest to get another GM job to see what he'd do under a real owner, but that hasn't happened yet.
    Last edited by rmc523; 08-18-2017 at 10:12 AM.

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    Yeah, that's the thing with Hill is that since Loria has meddled so much, it's hard to actually know if he's qualified for the job. I mean, I don't think he would have been so fast to trade Castillo. I think Loria ordered him to find a controllable MLB pitcher, so he did. And really, Straily for a AA pitcher wasn't a bad deal, although Castillo is turning into a stud.

    I also thought he got good value for Phelps and Ramos with, I assume, Loria not involved.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fauowls44 View Post
    Yeah, that's the thing with Hill is that since Loria has meddled so much, it's hard to actually know if he's qualified for the job. I mean, I don't think he would have been so fast to trade Castillo. I think Loria ordered him to find a controllable MLB pitcher, so he did. And really, Straily for a AA pitcher wasn't a bad deal, although Castillo is turning into a stud.

    I also thought he got good value for Phelps and Ramos with, I assume, Loria not involved.
    A good point I didn't think of within my own comment about the terrible trades are that they were always made with money in mind - Loria wouldn't eat money to get better players back, both when selling and buying. So we'd often overpay for mediocre guys because he wouldn't pony up extra money to get impact players when buying.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fauowls44 View Post
    I don't see why the front office would remain intact for a year. It doesn't take a year to put together a new regime. I have to think Jeter and the group have a list of candidates of who they want to hire at this point.
    It doesnt but u cant hire anyone until the sale is done. So just say it goes to Nov then u have 1 month to figure it all out. Alot easier to just keep Mike Hill around and hire someone later

    - - - - - - - - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by rmc523 View Post
    A good point I didn't think of within my own comment about the terrible trades are that they were always made with money in mind - Loria wouldn't eat money to get better players back, both when selling and buying. So we'd often overpay for mediocre guys because he wouldn't pony up extra money to get impact players when buying.
    Exactly. Mike Hill could be good or bad no one really knows. Hard to do a good job when your owner has to OK everything and refuses to include money OR always wants cash in return. From talks it seems Mike Hill is gone eventually when Jeter brings his people in

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    Quote Originally Posted by tjfla View Post
    It doesnt but u cant hire anyone until the sale is done. So just say it goes to Nov then u have 1 month to figure it all out. Alot easier to just keep Mike Hill around and hire someone later

    - - - - - - - - - -



    Exactly. Mike Hill could be good or bad no one really knows. Hard to do a good job when your owner has to OK everything and refuses to include money OR always wants cash in return. From talks it seems Mike Hill is gone eventually when Jeter brings his people in
    Hill sucks.Everything about this teams decisions on who to acquire, who not to acquire, who to draft, who to buy high on, who to sell low on tell you all you need to know. Having a crazy owner doesnt mean you have to acquire shit talent. I doubt Loria is telling him to go get Cashner immediately. Its more like go get a pitcher, and Hill chooses horrifically all the time. Loria sucks, but hill sucks too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rmc523 View Post
    Are other execs paid that much? Maybe guys like Theo that actually deserve it...

    This may be a stupid question, but what's the difference with a GM and baseball operations? I always thought it was just a way to add more to the title.

    Just add Mas to the group and call it a day...



    I think it may depend on when the sale goes through/is finalized. If it's before/in time for the offseason, it wouldn't surprise me if they cleaned house from the beginning and brought in someone new. But if it happens later, I could see Hill & co. staying on. When the Dodgers were sold, they kept the existing front office for a few years before bringing in Andrew Friedman and the rest of them.

    - - - - - - - - - -



    Yeah, he just kind of seems to be "there" with Loria and Samson being the bad guys (should we start a rumor that Hill is actually responsible for all the fire sales and Loria desperately wanted to keep everyone but Hill did it anyway?).

    I agree, though. I think the new ownership group would be best served to get rid of just about everyone associated with Loria's ownership, at least at the top/in the front office. Who knows, Hill might actually be competent at his job and just that limited/constricted by Loria to run things how they should be (draft, trades, free agents etc.), but he certainly hasn't done much in his time in charge.....terrible, questionable trades (even at the time, let alone now looking back) are perhaps the biggest red flag that come to mind. I've been waiting for Beinfest to get another GM job to see what he'd do under a real owner, but that hasn't happened yet.
    Some execs are but they actually earn it. Samson does nothing except sit in his office,go to meetings and shake hands. He made NO decisions

    President of Baseball Ops means in charge of baseball operations-anything that has to do with on the field product is run by him. Hire GM,scouts,scouting director,signs IFA,final say on everything.GM is like the same except runs day to day stuff. Talks trades,goes to meetings. Most teams usually have President of Baseball ops then VP of baseball ops/GM. In our system the FO is Jeff-Mike Hill so Mike Hill gets the title of President and GM BUT in real system like the Cubs its Theo(President of Baseball)Jed Hoyer(VP/GM) then 2 AGM and 2 directors.6 Top Level Guys

    Our system is pretty funny. We actually have 7 VPs but none of them do anything,they are just given the title

    - - - - - - - - - -

    Like said in previous post it will likely be Jeter-Mike Hill for a few months till everything is settled then Jeter will go for someone off the NYY tree who will help him out. With that being said don't be surprised if u see us making some moves in the offseason. Derek Jeter is making ALL the decisions now.

    Billy Eppler from LAA or Damon Oppenheimer from NYY Hire one of them to be VP of Baseball/GM(Jed Hoyer type who does all day to day stuff) and build from there. Jeter is NOT a scout type so expect someone he trusts that can scout and knows about the draft and IFA

    I know they want Stan Meek gone as Scouting Director

    2 things on Mike Hill-he is under contract till 2020 and he actually was a pretty good scout/player development guy in his day so no need to get rid of him like Samson who was worthless
    Last edited by tjfla; 08-18-2017 at 01:10 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fish16 View Post
    Hill sucks.Everything about this teams decisions on who to acquire, who not to acquire, who to draft, who to buy high on, who to sell low on tell you all you need to know. Having a crazy owner doesnt mean you have to acquire shit talent. I doubt Loria is telling him to go get Cashner immediately. Its more like go get a pitcher, and Hill chooses horrifically all the time. Loria sucks, but hill sucks too.
    I disagree with you to an extent. Who to sell high on, I could agree with you, but honestly, every other component you mentioned is tied to money, which for Loria means it's not there.

    Here's been the decision making process under Loria:

    Acquiring guys - how much do they cost?
    Selling guys - how much money can we save?
    Draft - who can we sign for cheap (sure, everyone wants a good deal for the FO, but we take it to the extreme)?

    Look at the Cashner deal you mentioned...

    Most organizations would say, who can we target that:
    1) will be an impact addition (good player)
    2) won't cost our top prospects
    3) #1 and #2, but also won't break the bank?

    The Marlins approach is:
    1) who's cheap/doesn't cost money
    2) who cares what prospects we give.....Oh wait, you'll take on more of his salary??? hey, here we'll throw in this guy too!!!
    3) Marlins fans! We were buyersssss!!!!!! We got player X that's been terrible for years, but we got him anyway! Yay us!

    So back to the Cashner deal - no, I don't think Loria said "go get Cashner now!!" I think he said "we don't have any money (to get a real impact player), find someone and acquire them, I don't care about prospects."

    The same goes for the other trades really - Loria says "let's go for it!" but won't spend money to acquire better players, the system is barren because he won't spend money in the draft or on international guys, and we've traded other guys away already - it's a never ending cycle because of constant ill-advised "go for it" moves that don't really add any value to the club.

    ---

    All that said, I'm not defending Hill. I want him to go, if anything so we don't have to hear him talk anymore (I'm sure he's a nice guy), but I think his hands have been tied to a point to where the "terribleness" of his moves can't be completely put on him. I thought the same about Beinfest. And that's not to say Hill doesn't deserve some responsibility either, he does.

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    Man, this all stinks of them not holding a fire sale, right?

    If you want a fire sale, you want Samson to stay so that he's a public fall guy who can go spin to the media and then get fired in a year so the casual fans think something's being done. And you'd want Hill to go because the typical thinking is that GMs with ties to players make emotional decisions due to those ties. Doing the opposite suggests to me that maybe they aren't trading these guys.

    I also have no problem with keeping Hill on - we don't really know what he is or does so it's impossible to judge him. And as I've said before (on twitter for sure - maybe here too), if we're going to give the FO crap for the bad move, we ought to give credit for things over the years like unearthing Uggla and Bour in the Rule 5 Draft, drafting an incredible half of a Major League lineup (JT, Yelich, Ozuna, Stanton), drafting Ramos in a late round, signing Yelich to a phenomenal deal, etc. It's easy to shit on this front office but someone somewhere was making those moves.

    My gut tells me (and has always told me) that Loria is most active with 1st round draft picks and FA signings. We know he's active with FA (he personally met Reyes, found "special money" for Pudge, etc). It would seem he's active with first rounders because we always go with a value pick there. But when you look at the fact that we've had some nice picks further down, it makes me feel that maybe he doesn't care there because the money is lower.

    I'm fine with keeping Hill or moving on from him, but it really does seem to me that keeping him on and canning Samson says they aren't going to sell off.
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    Quote Originally Posted by emkayseven View Post
    Man, this all stinks of them not holding a fire sale, right?

    If you want a fire sale, you want Samson to stay so that he's a public fall guy who can go spin to the media and then get fired in a year so the casual fans think something's being done. And you'd want Hill to go because the typical thinking is that GMs with ties to players make emotional decisions due to those ties. Doing the opposite suggests to me that maybe they aren't trading these guys.

    I also have no problem with keeping Hill on - we don't really know what he is or does so it's impossible to judge him. And as I've said before (on twitter for sure - maybe here too), if we're going to give the FO crap for the bad move, we ought to give credit for things over the years like unearthing Uggla and Bour in the Rule 5 Draft, drafting an incredible half of a Major League lineup (JT, Yelich, Ozuna, Stanton), drafting Ramos in a late round, signing Yelich to a phenomenal deal, etc. It's easy to shit on this front office but someone somewhere was making those moves.

    My gut tells me (and has always told me) that Loria is most active with 1st round draft picks and FA signings. We know he's active with FA (he personally met Reyes, found "special money" for Pudge, etc). It would seem he's active with first rounders because we always go with a value pick there. But when you look at the fact that we've had some nice picks further down, it makes me feel that maybe he doesn't care there because the money is lower.

    I'm fine with keeping Hill or moving on from him, but it really does seem to me that keeping him on and canning Samson says they aren't going to sell off.
    Unfortunately based on history, I'm trying to mentally prepare for a complete fire sale/tear down and a speech by Jeter talking about how they're going to completely rebuild from the ground up "the right way, the winning way, it'll take a few years, but then we'll be competitive year in and year out!! yadda yadda"

    As I've said several times before (probably in this thread too), I just really worry about the perception of another firesale to the casual south Florida "fan." Jeter being part of the new ownership gives them immediate credibility, and I'm sure for the casual fan erases a lot of the ill-will toward the Marlins just because of his name, and perhaps more importantly, gives the casual fan a reason to give the team another chance. That said, those casual fans will need to see improvement, and a progressive steps toward yearly contention. I fear that them initiating a complete tear down will look like "same old Marlins" to that casual fan. People like all of us here on the board may understand what they're doing (but perhaps not like it), but this ownership group has an uphill battle to gain/regain the trust and support of South Florida. Dumping Samson helps with that too, by the way. But shooting themselves in the foot as one of their first moves seems like a mistake to me.

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