Ozuna Optioned

[Miamarlin21]

Yes, he did.

[Mainge]

I just can't get on the Latos bandwagon. His BB/K ratio looks good still but when you watch him pitch his stuff is just not as good as it was back in Cinci. This team desperately needs a #3 starter behind Fernandez/Alvarez next year once Haren is traded, so I wouldn't hate keeping Latos. But I don't see how I can advocate giving eight figures to a guy who is likely to be coming off a 4+ ERA season. I just really haven't liked most of what I've seen from Latos this year, and it's really disappointing.

I think his stuff has been excellent over his last several starts.

[Jay]

He thinks haren is a good number 3 so obviously he is a better judge of talent

[dim]

His numbers this season have been consistent with a good #3. And he's done it each and every start, something Latos can't say. Home runs be damned he keeps us in games, goes at least 6 innings most starts, and has been our best pitcher this year. I don't know why there was need for a snarky comment. Latos has been really bad this year. I don't see me as being the idiot here for thinking a couple decent starts the last month makes up for how bad he was to start, injury or not.

I get the fact a knee injury isn't as big of something to worry about as say a shoulder injury, and I'd be fine if he was a true "buy low" candidate, but as nny mentioned earlier he will command eight figures on a one year deal next year or in a long term deal. I don't want to be tying up that much of our payroll, especially since we're still working on a reasonably small payroll, to a single pitcher who may or may not be back to his previous self. I was totally fine with trading for Latos and still am, and every other start he seems to have a really good outing. But I still don't see the consistency in keeping runs off the board. I think some people get blinded by a good K/BB ratio and think that automatically means the guys having a great season.

The Latos experiment failed this year however you want to see it. If Latos is coming back as our #3 next year and can't post a low to mid 3 ERA, why would I want to pay that guy over $10 million to do so? I'd 100% rather trade Latos for prospects now (I know we get picks for keeping him and letting him walk, but I think we can squeeze some decent prospects now) and go into next season with Fernandez/Alvarez fronting, a newly signed or traded for #3 starter, and a fight for the last two spots between Koehler/Phelps/Urena/Nicolino/Hand. Hell if by some miracle Dan Haren is willing to sign a reasonable deal with us (no matter how unlikely that seems), I'm fine letting me be that #3 next year. And whoever loses the battle for the #4/5 spots goes into the 'pen and helps strengthen a weak spot for us this year. I'd rather use that Latos money to overpay Haren and keep him here. He may not be a world beater, but he's consistent in what he offers each and every start. A rotation of...

Fernandez
Alvarez
Haren
Koehler
Urena

Isn't all that bad next year. I actually like it. And we would still have options available at starting pitcher in case of injuries or failures. Giving money to Latos just extends both Urena and Nicolino's stays in AAA longer than they need and ties a significant portion of the payroll into a far less than sure thing. I don't see how everybody is 100% on board with this. Even at buy low Latos is expensive because of his pre injury numbers. I just don't see why I should want him in the rotation next year.

[HUGG]

That rotation sucks, Dim.

I've been defending Haren all year...but that rotation seriously sucks.

[Jay]

Let's think about this. Haren's K rate has declined this year. His BABIP is .252 .036 points lower than his career average and if the season ended today, it would be his lowest season BABIP of his career. Despite what people think, his HR rate has stabilized. xFIP uses 10.5% HR/FB to standardize hr rates; Haren is actually lower than that at 10.0%. His LOB% is 7.2% higher than career rate and would be the highest of his career.

Latos on the other hand has an improved K rate than last year. His BABIP is .025 points higher than career numbers. LOB% is 9.8% lower than career. His WAR this season is higher than Haren's.

[dim]

Well it's why I want to sign a #3 starter bad. But Haren with the numbers he's put up this year with that rotation and Jose/Alvarez being themselves, that rotation definitely doesn't suck. That rotation being good would totally predicate on Haren though. But yeah I've been begging for a #3 starter since May. For the rotation to work we desperately need a good one. Haren/Koehler/Hand traded, an offseason signed #3 starter and Phelps/Urena/Nicolino/Flores as the #4/5 in the rotation is what I hope happens.

[Nick]

We also have to take into consideration that Alvarez's arm may fall off by next season, and then he won't be of much use to us.

[marlinsfan24]

I think the Marlins need a #2 starter because I'm still not convinced Alvarez will be better than a #3. Also, like nick said, that arm will fall off soon.

[Mainge]

I'm not sure how you can argue for keeping a reliever in Cishek because of his track record and then castigate Latos despite his track record. Your arguments for Cishek are the exact same as the pro-Latos arguments.

That's very inconsistent.

- - - - - - - - - -

And God help the Marlins if that's our rotation next year.

[Erick]

Well it's why I want to sign a #3 starter bad. But Haren with the numbers he's put up this year with that rotation and Jose/Alvarez being themselves, that rotation definitely doesn't suck. That rotation being good would totally predicate on Haren though. But yeah I've been begging for a #3 starter since May. For the rotation to work we desperately need a good one. Haren/Koehler/Hand traded, an offseason signed #3 starter and Phelps/Urena/Nicolino/Flores as the #4/5 in the rotation is what I hope happens.

I think you care too much about ERA.
I'm surprised you want to bring Cishek back considering your emphasis on ERA.

I would be upset if we don't trade Dan Haren this month.

- - - - - - - - - -

Let's think about this. Haren's K rate has declined this year. His BABIP is .252 .036 points lower than his career average and if the season ended today, it would be his lowest season BABIP of his career. Despite what people think, his HR rate has stabilized. xFIP uses 10.5% HR/FB to standardize hr rates; Haren is actually lower than that at 10.0%. His LOB% is 7.2% higher than career rate and would be the highest of his career.

Latos on the other hand has an improved K rate than last year. His BABIP is .025 points higher than career numbers. LOB% is 9.8% lower than career. His WAR this season is higher than Haren's.

Haren is the ultimate sell high. There is no reason to keep him. Even in the case that we'd for whatever reason want to keep him beyond this year, he probably wouldn't want to sign here anyway. This is the same guy who was a salary dump before the year, and also the same guy who didn't want to pitch here before the year started. I'm guessing he'll go to the first West Coast team that offers him a contract next offseason.

[Jay]

I'm upset we didn't trade Haren in May. I'm pretty indifferent on trading Latos provided they make a qualifying offer if they don't extend or trade him.

[Todd]

Fernandez/Alvarez/Urena/Nicolino/Cosart/Brice 6 man rotation.

[Jay]

Fernandez/Alvarez/Urena/Nicolino/Cosart/Brice 6 man rotation.

Rather convince Carl Pavano to come out of retirement than see half those guys in the rotation next year.

[nny]

I think the Marlins need a #2 starter because I'm still not convinced Alvarez will be better than a #3. Also, like nick said, that arm will fall off soon.

Precisely why I hope we grab two pitchers this offseason. We got a #1, we have a ? at #3, and we're plentiful in #4 and #5.