2025 Game Thread

[Namaste]

Oh and btw, it's not going to get better for Caba any time soon, he was put on the 60 day IL yesterday.

Obviously he’s not hitting well because (just like Luzardo’s entire 2024) Caba is injured.

/fish16 logic

[fish16]

Deal.

And you can stop declaring us the loser in all trades where we acquire very young talent where it’s CLEARLY way too early to tell how well we did in the trade.

Baseball america is the one who took him out of their top 100 within a month, not me. when you deal an all star caliber lefty in the rotation at age 27 for an 18 year old SS in A ball with no power and 3 years away from the big leagues while also spending an embarassing amount on the major league roster, we're the loser.

Some of that is not caba's fault obviously, but this entire rebuild is the move of a loser franchise. When you wonder why fans arent coming out in droves after an exceptional 7-7!!!!! start, shit like trading good players for guys the fans wont see for 3 years in a best case scenario is why. It's loser baseball designed to give homers like you something to look forward to that will never come while they pocket money and dont reinvest in the team. you know what's more fun than Lou's theoretical depth charts for years down the line that never come to fruition? Watching a competitive major league roster. And it's why we are drawing an embarassing 8k or fewer fans every night that we arent playing a marquee team. no one wants to watch this shit product while they blow smoke up your ass about the future that they wont invest if it ever comes to fruition anyways. .


Oh and btw, it's not going to get better for Caba any time soon, he was put on the 60 day IL yesterday.

[Namaste]

He gave up 3 runs in 4 innings with no walks. we're going to cherry pick 1 start? He wasnt good that night but he didnt get blasted for 8 runs in 2 innings. The phillies as a team that postseason had an OPS over .810.Zac gallen faced them twice in the NLCS, lost both times, and gave up 5 ER in 5 innings with 8 hits and 4 ER in 6 IP with 2 walks and just 1 strikeout. The philies are good.

It's ok to not be an unapologetic homer about everything the team does. They dealt an all star level rotation player for an 18 year old SS who cant slug his weight. You dont have to act like every player that was traded from here sucks once they get dealt.

Deal.

And you can stop declaring us the loser in all trades where we acquire very young talent where it’s CLEARLY way too early to tell how well we did in the trade.

[fish16]

And his injury concerns were enough that a team desperate for pitching backed out.

He might end up healthy. His arm/shoulder could give out tomorrow.

It's hard to say they traded him at his lowest value when he didn't have much value at all and weighed that against him recouping value/having a bad injury that leaves him with zero.

And it is way too early to tell one way or the other whether it was a good or bad choice.

He's also just a highly volatile pitcher. And questions about him have been present his entire career, as the Phillies are what...his 4th? 5th organization.

He also isn't a top of the rotation LHP. He is either lights out or a disaster and it's often 50/50. He doesn't have just average starts. And that's on top of his injury concerns.

Literally every single pitcher in baseball could have their arm/shoulder give out tomorrow. That's what happens when everyone throws in the high 90s.

You also love to trot out that line about him being super volatile and not having average starts and it's just complete nonsense, like much of what you say is. Every pitcher has bad starts. He has plenty of just average starts, plenty of phenomenal starts, and some duds. Just like any other good pitcher. His game logs every year has a mix of all of them.

Regarding being on his 4th organization. He was traded from Washington to Oakland for 2 relievers who had been all stars during their career when he was recovering from TJ after being drafted and the nationals were trying to compete. He was traded from oakland here for another all star in starling marte in a year the a's were trying to compete. Those are teams dealing prospects to try to win. Happens consistently.

[fish16]

Also I am not worried about Caba. It would be foolish to be.

But he is 19, with a new organization and coaches, and has a BABIP under .250 and very encouragingly has 15 BB to 7 K against older competition.

Who knows if he turns into anything but it's a bit early to panic.

well the experts at baseball america seem to think differently considering they immediately dropped him from their top 100 after he again showed 0 power thus far this year. So far he looks like adeiny Hechavarria with better plate discipline but a worse glove and probably worse power. and he's also 3+ years from the big leagues.

[fish16]

We’ll always have Luzardo’s amazing start against Philly in the 2023 Wild Card game to remember him by. Lemme guess, he was hurt that start?

He gave up 3 runs in 4 innings with no walks. we're going to cherry pick 1 start? He wasnt good that night but he didnt get blasted for 8 runs in 2 innings. The phillies as a team that postseason had an OPS over .810.Zac gallen faced them twice in the NLCS, lost both times, and gave up 5 ER in 5 innings with 8 hits and 4 ER in 6 IP with 2 walks and just 1 strikeout. The philies are good.

It's ok to not be an unapologetic homer about everything the team does. They dealt an all star level rotation player for an 18 year old SS who cant slug his weight. You dont have to act like every player that was traded from here sucks once they get dealt.

[Todd]

I do. I think of all the newer stats it can be most indicative of success.

[Nick]

Todd likes BABIP.

[Todd]

Also I am not worried about Caba. It would be foolish to be.

But he is 19, with a new organization and coaches, and has a BABIP under .250 and very encouragingly has 15 BB to 7 K against older competition.

Who knows if he turns into anything but it's a bit early to panic.

[Todd]

Only at 76 P too.

[Nick]

I know the whole 3rd time through thing, but Bellozo was cruising. And you take him out to go to a kid just out of AAA making his 2ns appearance of his career. Doesn"t make a lot of sense to me.

[Namaste]

We’ll always have Luzardo’s amazing start against Philly in the 2023 Wild Card game to remember him by. Lemme guess, he was hurt that start?

[Todd]

And his injury concerns were enough that a team desperate for pitching backed out.

He might end up healthy. His arm/shoulder could give out tomorrow.

It's hard to say they traded him at his lowest value when he didn't have much value at all and weighed that against him recouping value/having a bad injury that leaves him with zero.

And it is way too early to tell one way or the other whether it was a good or bad choice.

He's also just a highly volatile pitcher. And questions about him have been present his entire career, as the Phillies are what...his 4th? 5th organization.

He also isn't a top of the rotation LHP. He is either lights out or a disaster and it's often 50/50. He doesn't have just average starts. And that's on top of his injury concerns.

[fish16]

I’m glad you mentioned it because I forgot after you told us the first 87 times.

also, any Marlins fan with more than 12 brain cells knows there’s 0% chance Luzardo would be performing this well in Miami. You have to know this.

Because you say so? He had a 3.8 WAR season in 2023, was hurt last year and they traded him at his lowest value, and now he's healthy and pitching well again. why would that be different here?

His k/9 in 2023 was 10.48, this year it's 10.15. His BB/9 that year was 2.77 this year its 2.38. Average fastball velocity that year was 96.8, this year it's 96.5. The main difference is he hasn't given up homers this year. He is doing exactly what he did in 2023, just slightly better. and they managed to trade him after 2024 despite fully intending on rebuilding from the second bendix was hired. there is no need to defend the move. It's just another guy they dealt instead of keeping and signing long term. 27 year old top of the rotation lefties dont grow on trees. Good organizations keep those guys and build around them or dont sell them when they are coming off an injury plagued year. it's just bad management.

[Namaste]

Luzardo on the other hand was dealt at his lowest value

I’m glad you mentioned it because I forgot after you told us the first 87 times.

also, any Marlins fan with more than 12 brain cells knows there’s 0% chance Luzardo would be performing this well in Miami. You have to know this.