Marlins Target Greinke?

[Erick]

How? KC sent money to Milwaukee. We're very good at accepting money.

They sent 2 million; Grienke's making 13.5.
Betancourt's a bad contract making an additional 4 million in 2011/6 million in 2012.

All in all, it's 15.5 million dollars added to Milwaukee's '11 payroll.

[Swifty]

It's not as if Greinke started making $13.5 million today. We were interested in him at his contracted rate, albeit slightly.

This isn't "about money" as much as it is about Drayton Moore inexplicably loving Cain.

[Erick]

It's not as if Greinke started making $13.5 million today. We were interested in him at his contracted rate, albeit slightly.

This isn't "about money" as much as it is about Drayton Moore inexplicably loving Cain.

Just because the Marlins were rumored to be talking about it at the Winter Meetings doesn't mean they were ever seriously considering it. Sometimes things are just blown way out of proportion; considering that was a legit rumor for about 10 minutes, it seemed like one of those cases where people were making too much out of nothing.

And I highly doubt Lorenzo Cain was the main reason for this deal, considering he's like the 3rd best piece KC's getting out of the deal, and he's not that special.

KC actually wanted to trade with the Nats supposedly, but Grienke interfered with his no-trade clause.

[CrimsonCane]

You need to read swifts post again. Different people can think differently from you about who is the better piece in the deal. In this case, swift is saying the Moore thinks Cain is a lot more special than you do, whether he's right or not is a completely different matter.

[AdamRavs]

In watching Cain 1st hand I think he is gonna be a hell of a player.. not a ton of power but has all the other tools.. I would of liked him to come to us or stay in Milw. but the Brewers are going all in for next yr with Prince in his last yr.

[Erick]

You need to read swifts post again. Different people can think differently from you about who is the better piece in the deal. In this case, swift is saying the Moore thinks Cain is a lot more special than you do, whether he's right or not is a completely different matter.

Swift is saying that Lorenzo Cain was the difference maker, in terms of the deal getting done. Considering that Moore hasn't publicly said that, I highly doubt it's true because Cain was the 3rd best player KC got in return.

He's also saying that this had nothing to do with money. Adding Grienke would've put payroll for '11 at ~70 million, which goes against everything the Marlins had said they would do in '11.

I really don't see how this had NOTHING to do with money.
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In watching Cain 1st hand I think he is gonna be a hell of a player.. not a ton of power but has all the other tools.. I would of liked him to come to us or stay in Milw. but the Brewers are going all in for next yr with Prince in his last yr.

Cain reminds me of Maybin.

[CrimsonCane]

You are basically saying that you don't believe Moore would think that because it's not what you think. He is the 3rd best player in the deal according to you.

[Erick]

You are basically saying that you don't believe Moore would think that because it's not what you think. He is the 3rd best player in the deal according to you.

Ok. Yes, I'm using my opinion.
Swift is using his, as well.

Neither one is fact because Dayton Moore hasn't said a thing about it.

I'm not sure what you're trying to start with this.

In terms of prospect status, Dayton Moore is a dumbass if he thinks Cain is anything more than the 3rd best player in this deal.

[Ramp]

...in his opinion

maybe he loves Lorenzo Cain

[Fish and Chips]

Moore has a track record of being a dumbass

[Erick]

...in his opinion

maybe he loves Lorenzo Cain

Or maybe Cain is just a nice complimentary piece to the trade, centered around getting Escobar (one of the best prospects at his position), and Odorizzi (former 1st round pick with promising #'s in A ball).

That sounds like it makes a lot more sense.

Until proven otherwise with quotes from Dayton Moore himself, I highly doubt the 25 year CF'er who hit .218/.294/.330 in 232 PA's splitting time between rookie ball, A ball, and AA as recently as 2009 is the main reason why he made the trade.

Cain really isn't anything special. He's a toolsy outfielder with underwhelming minor league #'s, who has never been considered a top prospect around baseball.

[AdamRavs]

Reminds you of Maybin huh? lol.. Maybe you should ACTUALLY watch him play

Also Escobar is a great defensive player however he doesn't hit very well at all.. But all this is YOUR opinion

I live in Milw I have seen these guys in person play many a times.. Cain was the center piece and considered one of the top prospects.

[Erick]

Reminds you of Maybin huh? lol.. Maybe you should ACTUALLY watch him play

Yes. That totally proved me wrong...

I have watched him play. Toolsy outfielder with raw potential. Just like Maybin. Just like Maybin he has put up mediocre K/BB ratios in the minors, and he doesn't really have much power.

Just like Maybin, if he's going to become a valuable player one day, it will likely have more to do with his defense than his offense.

He's 25.

He's not a special prospect.

As a matter of fact, if Jeremy Jeffress develops a 3rd pitch to go along with his triple digit fastball/curveball, Cain will probably become the most irrelevant part of the deal.

The Royals actually did pretty well with this deal, all things considered.
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Reminds you of Maybin huh? lol.. Maybe you should ACTUALLY watch him play

Also Escobar is a great defensive player however he doesn't hit very well at all.. But all this is YOUR opinion

I live in Milw I have seen these guys in person play many a times.. Cain was the center piece and considered one of the top prospects.

Escobar is a shortstop. Defense at shortstop is very valuable. He was a top 20 prospect in all of baseball as recently as last year.

You're kidding yourself if you think Cain is the best prospect in the deal. In 2010, he was ranked as the 8th best prospect...in the Brewers organization. He's really done nothing since then to improve on that, and he's not exactly "young" for a prospect, at the age of 25.

I'm really glad you've watched him play, though. Because that's totally not opiniated, and makes you totally right. Your eyes own everything.

[AdamRavs]

Swift is saying that Lorenzo Cain was the difference maker, in terms of the deal getting done. Considering that Moore hasn't publicly said that, I highly doubt it's true because Cain was the 3rd best player KC got in return.

He's also saying that this had nothing to do with money. Adding Grienke would've put payroll for '11 at ~70 million, which goes against everything the Marlins had said they would do in '11.

I really don't see how this had NOTHING to do with money.
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Cain reminds me of Maybin.

Yes. That totally proved me wrong...

I have watched him play. Toolsy outfielder with raw potential. Just like Maybin. Just like Maybin he has put up mediocre K/BB ratios in the minors, and he doesn't really have much power.

Just like Maybin, if he's going to become a valuable player one day, it will likely have more to do with his defense than his offense.

He's 25.

He's not a special prospect.

As a matter of fact, if Jeremy Jeffress develops a 3rd pitch to go along with his triple digit fastball/curveball, Cain will probably become the most irrelevant part of the deal.

The Royals actually did pretty well with this deal, all things considered.

Jefferess was just tossed in.. He has been suspended twice for PEDS..

Cain in the minors OPS'd around .780 or so throughout his whole minors career he's not a pos in which you are making him out to be.. Plus he plays a good cf..

[Erick]

Jefferess was just tossed in.. He has been suspended twice for PEDS..

Cain in the minors OPS'd around .780 or so throughout his whole minors career he's not a pos in which you are making him out to be.. Plus he plays a good cf..

I never said he was a piece of shit. What I'm saying is that he's not a better prospect than Escobar. And after what Odorizzi was able to do this year, he's nowhere near that either.

I'm also saying that if you're going to argue with me for using an opinion, don't use the whole "I've watched him play" crap, when that's opiniated, as well.

Also, I really could care less about his career .OPS in the minor leagues. Fact of the matter is, he's going to be 25 next year, and his last two years in the minor leagues have been extremely underwhelming. He is not the best prospect in this deal, and a player like him will never be the best prospect in a deal involving a guy like Zach Grienke.