Bo Porter Confuses Jeff Keppinger for Juan Pierre, Fish Still Win in Extras 9-8

[FishFanInPA]

Discuss.

[m26555]

Uggla is coming alive. We need him for the stretch run.

[MiamiHomer]

Pretty sure Pierre would have thrown out Hermida as well.

[The Hanram]

Should read: "Fip confuses Bonifacio for Clutch, Fish Win in spite of him 9-8."

:P

[Bobbob1313]

1.167 is Danny's OPS in August. :)

[Omar]

Bonifacio definitely came through in his one AB.

So, the offense woke up these last couple of games!

[Ramp]

i remember when we won at the end

[Omar]

Pitt is still holding on against Colorado, 7-3, in the top of the 8th at Coors. San Fran has an early 1-0 lead on LA in the bottom of the fourth in AT&T park.

[Namaste]

LOL PORTER

jeremy hermida has been for me the last 5-6 days. guy is steppin up and helping the team win games.


This would have been a horrific loss. After the big comeback and all the missed opportunities and Bo "Lasic Surgery" Porter.


My confidence is now at -17

[Omar]

Tying run on base for the Cubs with two outs
--------------------
Phillies have beat the Cubs, 4-3.

Just like that, your Florida Marlins are in 3rd place in the Wild Card hunt with a chance to gain ground on both of the teams in front of us.

[FishFanInPA]

By the way, seeing that highlight on sportscenter, Bo Porter is an idiot. That was ridiculous. Absolutely ridiculous like fire him ridiculous. I dont even think Emilio scores there.

[Bingebag]

I wasn't even mad at Hermida for turning for the run in the 10th. Too much confidence in this team for me to consider losing.

[Party]

Lost in all of this is another crappy start by Volstad.

[FishFanInPA]

I lol'd at that hanging breaking ball he served up to Carlos Lee.

[Omar]

Lost in all of this is another crappy start by Volstad.
There was still leftover rain

[Sashimi]

Lost in all of this is another crappy start by Volstad.

Not lost on me. If we weren't so desperately short on starting pitchers, I would say a stint in the minors might serve him well.

[Longview]

Whats the status of Miller? I havent paid attention since he hurt his ankle.

[Fish Tank Frenzy]

Bo Porter continually sends runners when he clearly should not. Tommy was trying to defend him in the booth but nothing could be said to help out Porter.

1-2-3 in the order have been on fire. Uggla is starting to get it in gear.

All in all a huge win. Need to take one more to take 3/4...go Nolasco!

[Omar]

Better to send more runners than you should IMO than do the Jeff Cox and send no one. Both extremes are bad, but I've got no issues (most of the time) testing the arms of most OF.

That said.....yeah, tonight was, yeah.....

[m26555]

By the way, seeing that highlight on sportscenter, Bo Porter is an idiot. That was ridiculous. Absolutely ridiculous like fire him ridiculous. I dont even think Emilio scores there.
He doesn't.

[wanks1212]

Whats the status of Miller? I havent paid attention since he hurt his ankle.

hasn't pitched in a AAA game since july 29th

[Bingebag]

Volstad is pitching his way to the big easy, and if Emilio got scorched like Hermida did, I would have been way more pissed. This is purely because I (we) are haters.

[Sashimi]

I just have to say it again: While wasn't a blockbuster move, getting Nick Johnson was a brilliant move. He really changes the dynamic of this lineup with his monster OBP ability. It's likely not a coincidence that Coghlan's torrid hitting streak roughly coincides with Johnson's arrival.

[Fish and Chips]

i agree with subzero, its better to be overly aggresive in those situations, then passive, it forces the other team to make a good play. if jeff's throw was way off and herms score, then bo is a hero. i dont know how good of an arm keppinger's has, but i assume its below average because he is an infielder, and only played 3 games in the outfield before today.

[MiamiHomer]

i agree with subzero, its better to be overly aggresive in those situations, then passive, it forces the other team to make a good play. if jeff's throw was way off and herms score, then bo is a hero. i dont know how good of an arm keppinger's has, but i assume its below average because he is an infielder, and only played 3 games in the outfield before today.

Keppinger has a SS/3B arm and was playing shallow enough that it was basically like a SS being the cut off man on a relay to throw the guy out at home so yeah unless he just flat out lost his grip on the ball Hermida was screwed.

[m26555]

Volstad is pitching his way to the big easy, and if Emilio got scorched like Hermida did, I would have been way more pissed. This is purely because I (we) are haters.
The problem with that is we have no one to replace Volstad. If this were April or May, you could send him down to the minors for work, but we're in the middle of a pennant race. We don't have any better options.

[geemoney]

Volstad is pitching his way to the big easy, and if Emilio got scorched like Hermida did, I would have been way more pissed. This is purely because I (we) are haters.
Thing is, who do we replace Volstad with? Miller's out, and we already have trouble with West in the back of the rotation.

EDIT: Barely beaten on the point by m2655.

[Party]

The ball was right at Keppinger.

Hermida is an average runner.

Hermida had just made the turn at 3B.

I am all for being aggressive on the basepaths. But there was no excuse for that. The throw could have been several feet off line and Pudge would have still nailed the runner.

[Fritz]

For the record, Hermida was technically safe, but the umpire pretty much has to call Hermida out in that case.

[Beef]

Yeah, I thought he was safe too, but he was out.

Also, I was gon quote Binge and I'm doing this because it made me laugh, I are haters too.

[all black marlins hat]

It appeared that Herms wasn't even at third base by the time Keppinger got the ball.
And he was safe at the plate.

Anyone else notice that Wright walked the three lefties he faced in the 11th, but baffled the two righties.
I was surprised they took him out.

[m26555]

For the record, Hermida was technically safe, but the umpire pretty much has to call Hermida out in that case.
True, but on some occasions the umpire actually puts some effort into actually watching the slide. I'm sorry, but there is no excuse for missing that call; Hermida was clearly safe.

I don't know if anyone remembers, but do you guys recall a game we had against Philly in '07 where the throw beat Aaron Boone to the plate by about 10 feet but he slid under the tag of Rod Barajas and was called safe to send the game to extras?

Some umps aren't stubborn enough to live and die by that "rule," but they are very few in number.

[MiamiHomer]

Except hermida was more like 40 ft away.

[all black marlins hat]

Except hermida was more like 40 ft away.

And miraculously still slid in safely to be called out by the horrid ump.
Whose strike zone was awful as well.

[m26555]

Except hermida was more like 40 ft away.
That still doesn't excuse the ump from missing the call. I don't care if he was starting all the way from first; if he's safe, he's safe.

[MiamiHomer]

I'm not going to dwell on a call that would be called maybe once out of 100 times.

[Omar]

Pudge has been "blocking" the plate very strangely this series. That's the second time he leaves his legs wide open for a runner to slide and touch home. I wonder what gives.

[m26555]

I'm not going to dwell on a call that would be called maybe once out of 100 times.
Yeah, because we're telling you to dwell on it. It's just making a point.

[Namaste]

When the ball beats the runner by 5 seconds, NO umpire on the planet calls the runner safe.

Bullpen (with exception of Nunez) deserves a shout out (hollerrrr) tonight.

Kept us in the game. Great comeback!

[m26555]

When the ball beats the runner by 5 seconds, NO umpire on the planet calls the runner safe.

Bullpen (with exception of Nunez) deserves a shout out (hollerrrr) tonight.

Kept us in the game. Great comeback!
I agree, but it's wrong.

[MiamiHomer]

I agree, but it's wrong.

I also agree it's wrong but it's like the same deal with the 2B/SS not touching second base on a double play but they were 'close' to the bag.
--------------------
MIAMI -- No obstacle seems too large for the streaking Marlins right now. Not even a five-run deficit with four innings to go and Roy Oswalt on the opposing rubber.

Faced with that scenario on Tuesday, the Marlins scored six runs in the sixth and seventh innings to take the lead, then finished in walk-off style in extra innings after the Astros tied it in the ninth.

That came courtesy of Dan Uggla, who brought in his second run of the game with an RBI single to left field, scoring Chris Coghlan and giving the Marlins a 9-8 win in 11 innings in front of 13,312 at Land Shark Stadium.

Facing Wesley Wright, Coghlan and Nick Johnson each drew walks to start the bottom of the 11th, and John Baker also got a free pass with two outs to load the bases. Then, with Alberto Arias in the game, Uggla lined a 1-1 pitch to the left side for the Marlins' eighth walk-off of the season.

Thanks in large part to shelling Marlins starter Chris Volstad for five runs in the fifth, the Astros found themselves ahead, 7-2, going into the bottom of the sixth. But Florida came all the way back for its fifth straight win, handing Houston its biggest blown lead of the year.

The Marlins (60-53) are now seven games above .500 -- the most since April 22.

Florida took a one-run lead on a two-run double in the seventh by John Baker. But with runners on the corners and one out in the top of the ninth, Leo Nunez served up an RBI single to Geoff Blum to tie the game at 8.

In his nightmarish fifth inning, Volstad fired 35 pitches to nine batters and exited before recording the final out of the frame. But the Marlins came back with their own big inning off Oswalt in the sixth, striking for four runs on four hits and two walks to make it a 7-6 game.

Marlins win fifth straight on walk-off in 11th (http://florida.marlins.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090811&content_id=6372100&vkey=recap&fext=.jsp&c_id=fla)

[mbitcronod12]

Well, I'm sure everyone's expecting me to say this so I may as well do it, I don't think Volstad going to the minors helps anything. He's better than any option we have down there and he needs the "on-the-job" training. Yes, this is his second bad start in a row but he went through this earlier against St. Louis and Boston and then bounced back. And, he was 3-0 with a 3.38 ERA in three starts before the start against Washington.

It's called growing pains.

Huge display by the offense today. This team is super hot right now.

[Fish and Chips]

interesting note adrian johnson was the home plate umpire for volstad's last 2 starts. and his strike zone was terrible for both games.

Volstad really needs to put his shit together, the marlins have no better internal option, but atleast he didnt give up a hr.
--------------------
when will anibal be ready?

[geemoney]

I just saw the pitch Nunez gave up the lead on....looked like a decent pitch- down and away to the lefty, and he just roped it.

[mbitcronod12]

Didn't realize that about the ump. Good call. The small strike zone could have contributed as well.

Anibal has two more starts. The 21st is what I heard last. We'll probably need him in place of West or RVH though.

[wanks1212]

http://www.fangraphs.com/lgraphs/290811128_Astros_Marlins_138189300_lbig.png

[Party]

Didn't realize that about the ump. Good call. The small strike zone could have contributed as well.

Anibal has two more starts. The 21st is what I heard last. We'll probably need him in place of West or RVH though.

I'd rather have RVH over Anibal.

[MiamiHomer]

Volstad's strike zone plot.

http://www.brooksbaseball.net/pfx/location.php?xml=http://gd2.mlb.com/components/game/mlb/year_2009/month_08/day_11/gid_2009_08_11_houmlb_flomlb_1//pbp/pitchers/458690.xml&batterX=0&innings=yyyyyyyyy&sp_type=1&s_type=1

[mbitcronod12]

I'd rather have RVH over Anibal.

Me, too. That's why I put West first. I know we just went with an all-righty rotation when we had 4 starters but I just think they like having a lefty in there with the Phillies in the division.

[Swifty]

So was it the threat of rain, the umpire, or was it me accidentally making eye contact with him, since, you know, it can never be that Volstad just flat out is not good right now.

[Omar]

Volstad's strike zone plot.

http://www.brooksbaseball.net/pfx/location.php?xml=http://gd2.mlb.com/components/game/mlb/year_2009/month_08/day_11/gid_2009_08_11_houmlb_flomlb_1//pbp/pitchers/458690.xml&batterX=0&innings=yyyyyyyyy&sp_type=1&s_type=1
Yeah, not what you need to be seeing from a 'ground ball' pitcher

[nny]

what I think is funny is the pre-season projections having Volstad at a 5 ERA and people calling it idotic and imposssible and yadda yadda

[Swifty]

Well, I think it was somewhat silly to expect Volstad to be this bad heading into the season given that he was an unknown (relatively) and his minor league numbers were encouraging, albeit slightly average. He never blew threw a level, and always allowed a lot of hits, but he did an excellent job of limiting the long-ball.

Now, he's just fucking abysmal, and I think it's pure craziness to just say he'll rebound, he's fine and it's just not his fault; it's the strike-zone, or the rain, or the fans, or the offense, or the defense.

He can still have a great career, but his 2009 is a lost cause and I hope we take any steps to ease him out of positions of consequence if the situation allows.

[FishFF]

I love how Swift keeps bringing up the rain comment, but the Nolasco comments were omfg it's getting old.

[Swifty]

I never said anything was getting old.

I think what was getting old to people was you and McLevin not understanding my point, which was totally accurate, that Nolasco is going to be really fucking bad if he gives up extra base hits.

Meanwhile, the rain comment stands as one of the four or five greatest excuses ever offered. I don't think there's any misinterpretation there, the threat of rain threw him off his game.

[nny]

Well, I think it was somewhat silly to expect Volstad to be this bad heading into the season given that he was an unknown (relatively) and his minor league numbers were encouraging, albeit slightly average. He never blew threw a level, and always allowed a lot of hits, but he did an excellent job of limiting the long-ball.

Well, you can look at his HR/FB and see that he was very lucky last season with it, that was the main reason one would expect him to be worse this season.

I personally expected him to be a 4 - 4.5 era pitcher (More 4 with 4.5 being the highend). I thought 5 era was high, but not impossible like most people who saw it said. He was very "lucky" last season. BABIP, LOB%, HR/FB%. His season last year got him overrated by a lot of people do to the flashy and sex sub-3 ERA.

The computer projections are completely unbiased and simply negated his luck from last season. And whaddayaknow, they aren't far off.

he 'shouldn't' continue to be this bad as now his HR/FB is on the other end of the spectrum, and he should fall down to the normal 11%ish rnage. But, again, we're still then only talking of a 4 to 4.5 era pitcher.

The one positive sign to take away from this season though is his BB/9. That's the one area where he's really beating his projections. Last year it was 3.84 (3.5 = average), this season it's just 2.70. Though you do have to wonder if some of that is to blame for the HRs he's given up. Shrug.

[MiamiHomer]

I love how Swift keeps bringing up the rain comment, but the Nolasco comments were omfg it's getting old.

Some others used the rain comment in the game thread today. Just sayin'

[FishFF]

Swift your comments for Nolasco were just as comical. You think by saying, Oh I mean I hope he does well and I want the Marlins to win in the end makes it less comical?

[Omar]

Some others used the rain comment in the game thread today. Just sayin'
Guilty.

That excuse was just too rich. And, well, it did rain today :wub

Hey guys, we did win today! Gained a game on the WC even!

[Swifty]

Swift your comments for Nolasco were just as comical. You think by saying, Oh I mean I hope he does well and I want the Marlins to win in the end makes it less comical?

I really want to know what makes it comical.

He's a roller-coaster of a pitcher. At the start of the season he was clearly not pitching well. I've maintained the whole time he's excellent at not walking guys and at striking people out. He gives up his fair share of extra base hits and his stuff is remarkably consistent. You can't even necessarily look at him and say "wow, his curveball is extra sharp tonight" because he almost always goes to the mound with the same stuff and the same control of that stuff. That his success is so dependent on two or three running grabs in the gap is concerning to me.

Quite honestly, it's the most transparent analysis I've ever made. There isn't some great underlying meaning to it, and, correct me if you disagree here, it's rather accurate. Nolasco is a great no-walk, high strikeout guy who seriously sucks when he's allowing extra base hits. There is nothing else to make of his success other than the XBH. He's never going to walk 7, he's never going to K just 1 or 2. That you're looking for some hidden meaning, or trying to assign value to what you feel to be between the lines vitriol I can often be known for is not my fault. Allow me, if you will, this instance of overly simplistic analysis. Should you so desire, we can continue this conversation further if you disagree with my analysis, but in a purely rudimentary discussion of a pitcher's worth, I hope we are all on the same page regarding Nolasco's strengths (no walks) and weaknesses (XBH).

And allow me to also make a self-promoting plug and say that since I cannot attend the game tomorrow, my seats are for sale on stub-hub at serious cut rate prices, and you can enjoy Nolasco's start in comfort, with waitress service.

[FishFF]

Right, all agreed on what kind of pitcher he is. I still don't see how you made those comments based on "if" he gives up xbh hits he is terrible, but if he doesn't then go Marlins. You think our starting rotation is a mess now, imagine if we traded Nolasco for a mediocre 3rd baseman like you wanted.

[nny]

And allow me to also make a self-promoting plug and say that since I cannot attend the game tomorrow, my seats are for sale on stub-hub at serious cut rate prices, and you can enjoy Nolasco's start in comfort, with waitress service.

Have (3) Friday tickets for sale? :mischief

[Fish and Chips]

can we give the astros and the natinals credit? they both have great lineup

[BigGameFish]

Yea i dont know what the fuck Bo Porter was thinking on that, the ball was about 30 feet out of the infield and CC was on deck!!! NO ONE IN BASEBALL HISTORY BEATS THAT THROW.

[FishFF]

Hermida did

[The_Godfather]

The most important thing about the game tonight IMO was us getting 'lucky' off Oswalt in the 6th. He still had dominant stuff and was pitching really, really well; we just got damn lucky that he was pulled early due to some fluky shit.

Great game though, what a huge win.

[Ice]

Remember when we were loosing and then we winned?

That might have been the best part of the game.

Marlins given me a hard on this week. Like no other.

[Chewford]

Remember when we were loosing and then we winned?

That might have been the best part of the game.


Yeah, I remember that part like it was yesterday.

The Marlins seem to be good at winning recently. I like that.

[McLevin]

I really want to know what makes it comical.

He's a roller-coaster of a pitcher. At the start of the season he was clearly not pitching well. I've maintained the whole time he's excellent at not walking guys and at striking people out. He gives up his fair share of extra base hits and his stuff is remarkably consistent. You can't even necessarily look at him and say "wow, his curveball is extra sharp tonight" because he almost always goes to the mound with the same stuff and the same control of that stuff. That his success is so dependent on two or three running grabs in the gap is concerning to me.

Quite honestly, it's the most transparent analysis I've ever made. There isn't some great underlying meaning to it, and, correct me if you disagree here, it's rather accurate. Nolasco is a great no-walk, high strikeout guy who seriously sucks when he's allowing extra base hits. There is nothing else to make of his success other than the XBH. He's never going to walk 7, he's never going to K just 1 or 2. That you're looking for some hidden meaning, or trying to assign value to what you feel to be between the lines vitriol I can often be known for is not my fault. Allow me, if you will, this instance of overly simplistic analysis. Should you so desire, we can continue this conversation further if you disagree with my analysis, but in a purely rudimentary discussion of a pitcher's worth, I hope we are all on the same page regarding Nolasco's strengths (no walks) and weaknesses (XBH).

And allow me to also make a self-promoting plug and say that since I cannot attend the game tomorrow, my seats are for sale on stub-hub at serious cut rate prices, and you can enjoy Nolasco's start in comfort, with waitress service.
But when ANY pitcher is giving up XBH they suck

And since he gave up a ton of XBH in April and May he's suddenly a pitcher who's prone to giving up XBH any more often than any other guy

He's been successful in 2008 and since the New Orleans experience because he strikes out guys and doesn't walk them (as you said), AND, more often than not, doesn't give up many XBH

I understand your point of Nolasco sucking when he gives up XBH, but so will your Josh Johnsons and Tim Lincecums of the world

[nny]

And since he gave up a ton of XBH in April and May he's suddenly a pitcher who's prone to giving up XBH any more often than any other guy

No, he's always given up a lot of XBH, has nothing to do with just his April and may, and no now it's not "as often as any other guy". Well, as often as any other FB-pitcher I'd guess. But FB pitcher = lots and lots of xbh. That's the reason why GB prospects are always rated higher.

[Bobbob1313]

I know Swift's whole thing is that when Nolasco is good he's the same pitcher as when he's bad, and that XBHs are solely to blame, but:

2008 when he sucked: 66 IP, 25 BB, 40 K. 3.41 BB/9, 5.45 K/9
2008 when he didn't suck: 146 IP, 17 BB, 146 K. 1.04 BB/9, 9 K/9.
2009 when he sucked: 43.2 IP, 13 BB, 37 K. 2.71 BB/9, 7.7 K/9
2009 when he didn't suck: 80.1 IP, 17 BB, 88 K. 1.91 BB/9, 9.9 K/9

I can't explain it, but at this point I'm not sure you can just chalk it up to "Well, he's exactly the same no matter what." He's shown to be two different pitchers, one with pretty good control and pretty good K rates who will get bombed occasionally. And then he's shown to be a pitcher with elite control and K rates who limits baserunners exceptionally well and is only hurt by the occasional long ball.

The key for him will be to get that latter pitcher to show up all year. I don't know why he hasn't so far, but I really don't think Swift's analysis of him is entirely fair.

Last year when he was clearly our ace and was just fucking mowing people down down the stretch, you maintained you're "He's not our ace" stance, and I don't seem to remember you making this argument then.