Starting Pitchers, Waivers, and The Marlins

[Swifty]

In the next week, just about every player on every roster in baseball will be put through waivers. Some pitchers won't clear (Halladay, Santana, JJ, Lincecum, etc), but some will.

I thought this could be a fun thread to both speculate as to who may clear, and more than that, who may and may be a good fit, since I think everyone (and I hope that includes Beinfest & Co.) realize we're at least 1 starter short, and almost certainly a left-handed starter short.

So, to kick this thread off, the 5 starting pitchers I'd consider most likely to clear waivers that fit our needs:



#1 Paul Maholm (1 year, $2.5 mil, arby eligible 2010, 2011) - 6-6, 4.75 ERA, 1.43 WHIP, 134.2 innings, 84 K's 42 BB's. He's due a lot of cash for a back end starter, so he'll probably clear. The Pirates are having a going out of business sale, so he'll probably be imminently available once he clears, and honestly I love him for 2 reasons: he's left-handed and logs innings. The only real question is, with the Pirates owning his 2010 and 2011 seasons, do they ask for more than would normally befit a 4th starter, and, most importantly, do they kick in the cash we'll almost assuredly seek to cover his remaining salary.

#2 Carl Pavano (1 year, $1.5 mil) - 9-8, 5.37 ERA, 1.38 WHIP, 125.2 innings, 88 K's 23 BB. If rumors are to be believed, we kicked the tires heavily on him. Truthfully, he'd be an ideal fit as a 4/5 in the NL; and we know he can pitch well at Landshark Stadium. Whether or not he clears is another story. The Indians obviously like him enough to pull him back to any claiming team that's simply there to block him, and $750K with no 2010 commitment is enticing to a lot of contending teams, so there's no fear of being "stuck" with him, but I'd suspect we put a claim in on him and try to work something out. Truthfully, he's the best name on the list, but I doubt he clears; we'd have to hope he falls to us and we can work something out with the Indians in the 48 hours we'd have to do so.

#3 Jon Garland (1 year, $6.25 mil) - 6-10, 4.26 ERA, 1.41 WHIP, 137.1 innings, 59 K's, 45 BB's. He's had a bad year, but he will assuredly clear. The D'Backs are going no where this year or next, so they'd love to have something to show for a bad signing. My gut says Tucker is probably enough to flat out get him, Tucker + gets him and his salary paid for in full. He's pitched really well recently, running 7 straight quality starts in his last 7 starts. He's a great fit for us if we can swing the remaining salary. Still, when you're as tantalizingly close as we are now, you'd hope we'd bite the bullet if he comes (as I'd expect) cheaply.

#4 Brian Bannister (1 year $1.74 mil; arby eligible 2010) - I only put his name on here because he'd been dangled, he's a guy who possibly clears only out of fear that someone'd be on the hook for his $900K or so due the rest of the season. He'd also be a guy worth paying an August price (yeah, that pun was semi-intentional) to acquire as he'd make the rotation going forward oh so sexy.

#5 - Brian Tallet (1 year deal, $1.15 mil); 5-6, 5.03 ERA, 1.44 WHIP, 112 innings, 83 K's, 55 BB - No he's not perfect, but with about $500K due the rest of the year, he's a safe bet to clear since the Jays would probably just flat out assign him to a claiming team. At the least he gives us back end of the rotation innings, as a lefty, plus, his arsenal of junk pitches probably suit themselves well for Landshark Stadium.

[Omar]

Great post. I like where you're going with your logic on Maholm, I think we could get him from the Bucs.

[Marlinsfan4lyfe]

brian bannister does sound very sexy. very good post.

[PitchingWinsGames]

I do love some Brian Bannister

[nny]

I don't see how Bannister clears. He has 3 more years of service time and is a good middle of the rotation guy. and KC was supposedly asking a lot for him before the deadline.

I wouldn't be against Maholm but I'm sure Hunnington also realizes it'd be selling low on him: his peripherals say he's still a ~4 ERA pitcher, not the near-5 he has been this year. That's why he's held on to him.

Garland and Pavano and Tallet I don't really see doing any better than Hensley, really. at that point it's making a move just to make a move.

[geemoney]

I believe Tallet was recently moved to the bullpen, FWIW.

[wanks1212]

Garland and Pavano and Tallet I don't really see doing any better than Hensley, really. at that point it's making a move just to make a move.

really on Pavano not being better than Hensley?


Pavano (MLB)

WHIP: 1.38
K/9: 6.3
BB/9: 1.65
HR/9: 1.36
GB%: 44.8
FIP: 4.25

Hensley (AAA NO)

WHIP:1.31
K/9:5.03
BB/9: 3.06
HR/9: 0.66
GB%: 49.4
FIP:4.51

At the ML level, Pavano has better K rates and BB rates than Hensley has at the MILB level. Pavano's more likely to give up the long ball, but gotta figure (or at least hope) those HRs come down a little moving to Land Shark.

(Neither Pavano nor Hensley have out of whack BABIP either)

Hensley may be more likely to induce grounders - assuming he can maintain that GB rate at the ML level, which may not happen - but Pavano's superior K rates/BB rates and the fact that he does induce a good # of GBs make me think he'd actually be a decent bet as a back of the rotation starter. Much safer than Hensley and probably a fair amount better, too. Better than any other internal options as well. I have a hard time believing Anibal comes back and puts up those peripherals.

Hensley just worries me too much with his K rates nad BB rates. Even if he maintains his current rates up in the majors (and he hasn't been improving his MILB rates) he's still not going to have great peripherals, meanign he probably won't have great results.

Pavano's a great option, and due to the escalators in this contract for the increases in IP (I don't know the exact increments) there's a good chance he'll pass through waivers. Now, if he'll cost any type of halfway decent prospect he may not be worth it, but for basically nothing/PTNBL, yeah, Pavano's a big help.

[nny]

The difference between a 4.5 era and a 4.2 era from here on out is 3 runs.

not much of a difference

i probably worded it badly though for what I meant

[FishFanInPA]

Maholm and Bannister are the most intriguing.

[wanks1212]

The difference between a 4.5 era and a 4.2 era from here on out is 3 runs.

not much of a difference


I understand that. But at the same time, it's more likely Pavano pitches at his 4.25 MLB FIP level than it is that Hensley maintains or betters his 4.5 AAA FIP into the majors. And along those lines, the difference between them would probably be more than 3 runs, imo, especially if Pavano drops his HR/9 in Land Shark (kinda likely) and if he gets a bit of a boost coming to the NL (not nearly as likely, but it seems to get mentioned every time someone switches leagues)

then again, that's more just semantics than anything, but the point is valid

[nny]

I understand that. But at the same time, it's more likely Pavano pitches at his 4.25 MLB FIP level than it is that Hensley maintains or betters his 4.5 AAA FIP into the majors. And along those lines, the difference between them would probably be more than 3 runs, imo, especially if Pavano drops his HR/9 in Land Shark (kinda likely) and if he gets a bit of a boost coming to the NL (not nearly as likely, but it seems to get mentioned every time someone switches leagues)

then again, that's more just semantics than anything, but the point is valid

I think he could basically duplicate his '06 (4.15 FIP) but with more HRs since going from PetCo to Landshark (he had 9% HR/FB at petco. Let's say...12%? Would increase his HRs from 15->20 up to 0.96 HR/9).

He's repertoire is just not something that dominates hitters so I wouldn't expect eye popping MILB numbers

However I do think ~5.5 K/9 and ~3.75 BB/9 would be more along the lines of what to expect. add that to ~0.96 HR/9 and you get 4.61 FIP.

But

I know we basically concede to one another so this isn't really a response to you but just more of the public that I wanted to post before

KISS is a programing saying that stands for Keep It Simple, Stupid. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KISS_principle)

Which can be applied to everything in life, not just programming. Adding something unnecessary for the sake of adding something just brings complexity.

Since we have an option sitting in our minors right now, I'd personally call up clay for a couple starts, tell him "You only get one shot, do not miss your chance to blow. This opportunity comes once in a life time you better...", and see how he does. If he sucks it up, make a move. If he doesn't, we have our answer. But there's no point in stock piling arms for 2 months.

[tjfla]

Malholm and Bannister would be nice but NO WAY either 1 of them get thru waivers or even to us.

The problem with Pavano is we did not wanna pay his salary. I know for a fact that we were talking with Cleveland and they want him gone however not just giving him away which is what we thought would happen.

Cleveland is now said to be OK just holding onto him until next season since they have so many young guys up there.They will try to get him thru just because every team tries to get everyone thru this time of year.

[lou]

I agree with tj, that no way Maholm or Bannister clears. And I agree with nny who cares about Tallet.

Also Swift, you have to add Pavano's wild incentives clauses to his contract value.

starts: $0.1M each for 18, 20, 22; $0.2M each for 24, 26, 28; $0.25M for 30; $0.3M for 32; $0.35M each for 33, 34; $0.4M for 35
innings: $0.1M each for 130, 140, 150; $0.15M each for 160, 170; $0.2M for 180; $0.25M each for 190, 200, 210; $0.3M for 215; $0.4M for 225; $0.5M for 235

Pavano is at 21 starts, and remaining games divided by 5 means he will pitch 11-12 more times. He's at 125.2 IP, and averaging 6 (5.98 really) IP per start.

So start 22 $100,000, starts 24, 26, 28 $600,000, start 30 $250,000, start 32 $300,000.
So innings 130, 140, 150 $300,000, 160 and 170 $300,000, 180 $200,000, 190 $250,000.

So Pavano the rest of the year (as of right now)
Base Salary = Approx. $500,000
Starts Incentives = $1,250,000
Innings Incentives = $1,050,000
Total = $2.8 Million

And Garland also has a $2.5 million buyout. He costs you between $4.5-$5 million here on out right now.

--

So I think a $2.5 millionish Pavano, and a $4.5 millionish Garland both clear. I'd add Doug Davis (about $3 million) and Livan Hernandez (under $1 million) to the list as well. They each exactly have a 1.50 whip this year, but both are capable of pitching 6 and 'only' giving up 4 runs every night. Which I may say, is an improvement. I think other clears will be Harang and Arroyo, both well over $10 million for 2010, and Oliver Perez (over $25 million lol).

I think any of these guys would be very useful to us, but there is a significant amount of salary to take on with everyone but Livan. I'd have to imagine if Pavano clears in a week, and the Marlins call asking for him and $ 2 million for Ryan Tucker, they'd have to take it. Why wouldn't they?

Guess we'll see.

[tjfla]

I agree with tj, that no way Maholm or Bannister clears. And I agree with nny who cares about Tallet.

Also Swift, you have to add Pavano's wild incentives clauses to his contract value.

starts: $0.1M each for 18, 20, 22; $0.2M each for 24, 26, 28; $0.25M for 30; $0.3M for 32; $0.35M each for 33, 34; $0.4M for 35
innings: $0.1M each for 130, 140, 150; $0.15M each for 160, 170; $0.2M for 180; $0.25M each for 190, 200, 210; $0.3M for 215; $0.4M for 225; $0.5M for 235

Pavano is at 21 starts, and remaining games divided by 5 means he will pitch 11-12 more times. He's at 125.2 IP, and averaging 6 (5.98 really) IP per start.

So start 22 $100,000, starts 24, 26, 28 $600,000, start 30 $250,000, start 32 $300,000.
So innings 130, 140, 150 $300,000, 160 and 170 $300,000, 180 $200,000, 190 $250,000.

So Pavano the rest of the year (as of right now)
Base Salary = Approx. $500,000
Starts Incentives = $1,250,000
Innings Incentives = $1,050,000
Total = $2.8 Million

And Garland also has a $2.5 million buyout. He costs you between $4.5-$5 million here on out right now.

--

So I think a $2.5 millionish Pavano, and a $4.5 millionish Garland both clear. I'd add Doug Davis (about $3 million) and Livan Hernandez (under $1 million) to the list as well. They each exactly have a 1.50 whip this year, but both are capable of pitching 6 and 'only' giving up 4 runs every night. Which I may say, is an improvement. I think other clears will be Harang and Arroyo, both well over $10 million for 2010, and Oliver Perez (over $25 million lol).

I think any of these guys would be very useful to us, but there is a significant amount of salary to take on with everyone but Livan. I'd have to imagine if Pavano clears in a week, and the Marlins call asking for him and $ 2 million for Ryan Tucker, they'd have to take it. Why wouldn't they?

Guess we'll see.

and there is your reason why we want Cleveland to pay his contract.

[Swifty]

The PB Post had an interesting spin on the rotation for the rest of the season:

The Marlins have 57 games remaining, and with off days factored in, they will need at least eight starts from a No. 5 starter. That also assumes that Rick VandenHurk, who is 1-0 in three starts, will fill the fourth spot for the final two months.

The top three pitchers: Josh Johnson, Chris Volstad and Ricky Nolasco could have as many as 37 more starts combined. The Marlins are 39-24 in games started by Johnson, Volstad and Nolasco and are 16-25 in all others.

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/marlins/content/sports/epaper/2009/08/03/a1c_marlins_0804.html

So, let's say that we find an in-house solution for the #4 spot (RVH runs with it, or RVH -> Anibal -> West -> Miller or some combination thereof).

If we're looking at just 8 starts left, that makes Lou's Pavano projection look overly ambitious. Instead of 11-12 starts, you're talking 7 or 8 (since if need be, we could short rest JJ/Nolasco with the off-days in September & October 1st before the final series in Philadelphia).

Ergo, our schedule potentially "saves" us at least $250K and as much as $1 million with Pavano if we flip flop the rotation around and use some combination of the arms we have to squeeze out a few starts and, of course, maximize the number of starts we get out of JJ, Nolasco and Volstad.

[lou]

Good addition.

Although you'd imagine a "Pavano" to be the 4th starter at this point? right? RVH has been good, and maybe Miller/West get their act together, but if we get someone, it's going to be immediately a more consistent option than what we have more than likely. I'm sure we could lop 1/2 million off the Pavano incentives by smart management, but I think the point still stands as, are they going to pick up some portion of a $2 million contract? They firmly would not pay $1.8 for Nick Johnson.

I'd hope the Marlins would trade "RP prospect" for Pavano and $1 mil (clev eat 1/2), and suck up adding $1 to our yearly payroll for a legitimate shot at the playoffs. That seems reasonable to me.

[Swifty]

Yeah, I'd have to agree with you. If Pavano comes, he slots in behind Volstad. That said, I think the point remains that we'd still manipulate the rotation, if not to get the most JJ / Nolasco starts possible, but also to keep Pavano's incentives from hitting. I like Pavano, but the difference between him and a healthy Miller is negligible to the point where I wouldn't be upset if we screwed around and took a start or two from Pavano and gave it to Miller. So yeah, I hope we make this happen.

[Swifty]

Cross Pavano off the list, he didn't even get to us. Oh well, not surprising though.

But, let's add a new name:

John Smoltz.

He was DFA'd by the Sox, so they're on the hook for his salary. If we wanted him, we could pull a Helms/Cody $1 trade, or we could actually surrender a warm body. Or we can wait the 10 days and sign him as a free agent (however, we should just go for the trade so we don't leave his signing up to chance, and in either event, the Red Sox would cover the salary less the prorated minimum he'd be owed).

Food for thought on Smoltz:

As bad as he's been, he's still only walked 8 people in 40 innings; and K'd 33 in 40. Yeah, the 9 homeruns in 8 games are concerning, but he's still K'ing guys and keeping people off base via the free pass, he just lives and dies with the long ball. Sound like anyone we know? Yeah, I'll take a just DFA'd Nolasco as our 4/5 thank you very much. Get this done, please, the individual pitcher stats are somewhat encouraging to the extent that I'd like to say he can be a 6 inning national league 4th/5th starter.

[McLevin]

Yeah, I'll take a just DFA'd Nolasco as our 4/5 thank you very much.
With all due respect, if you are saying that the current Smoltz is the same pitcher as the current Nolasco, you have officially lost all credibility in my eyes

[FishFanInPA]

We had Al Leiter past his prime. That worked out well too.

[Swifty]

I don't think any one pitcher or player is the same as any other pitcher/player. People that say Kershaw channels Koufax, or that Petit was meant to be the Venezuelan Greg Maddux just make the comparison for the sake of simplicity. It's much easier to take a stab at saying _____ and _______ are similar because they both rely on the same stuff/approach/whatever to be effective and successful.

I don't understand why Nolasco is so far above criticism here and people feel that it's just impossible to say, well, Nolasco is great at not walking guys and great at striking guys out but he's only as good as the extra-base hits he allows.

To me, the whole point of this thread is to say that we've got to find flawed pitchers that most other teams don't want, will slide to us, or will clear waivers. Kind of like finding the fat chick with the pretty face or the girl with the great body but annoying laugh, these are not going to be ideal options, merely tolerable ones. If you think that Rick VandenHurk right now, Sean West or the ghost of Kirt Ojala is going to push us to the playoffs, you're sorely mistaken, and if you think the point of this thread is to say "X is better than anyone we have on the entire roster" you're fucking silly. We're shopping for a 4th and 5th starter, excuse me for thinking that it's worth taking a chance on a guy like Smoltz because I see some redeeming qualities in his stat lines.

[nny]

We had Al Leiter past his prime. That worked out well too.

And Al Leiter was putting up horrible peripherals before we signed him. Not the same with Smoltz.

I'd love for us to take a chance on him.

[McLevin]

I don't think Nolasco is above criticism

I just think comparing 09 Nolasco to 09 Smoltz is insane

And I don't think 09 Smoltz pushes us to the playoffs any more than RVH or West does. In fact, I'd take RVH or West over 09 Smoltz

09 Smoltz has been as ineffective as any pitcher I've watched this year

Is he worth a flier, heck why not, just keep your expectations extremely low

[nny]

I mean hell, the year before we got Leiter, he put up a 6 K/9 and a 5 BB/9. How is that even close to Smoltz's 7.5 K/9 and 2 BB/9?
--------------------

I just think comparing 09 Nolasco to 09 Smoltz is insane

Nolasco before sent down

k/9: 7.6
BB/9: 2.7
HR/9: 1.7

Smoltz

K/9: 7.5
BB/9: 2.0
HR/9: 1.8

[Mainge]

With all due respect, if you are saying that the current Smoltz is the same pitcher as the current Nolasco, you have officially lost all credibility in my eyes

Pretty sure he's comparing him to April-May Ricky.

[Ramp]

Check out Smoltz's periph's vs lefties. That's exciting stuff!

(this coming from someone that actually hopes we pick him up)

[McLevin]

Lefties hitting a robust .440/.490/.758 off of him

Let's throw him against the Phillies

[wanks1212]

smoltz is absolutely worth a flier

at this point, there's really nothing to lose by giving him a start or two to see if he can drop those hr's and become a viable back of the rotation starter

[Fish and Chips]

who about padilla? he just got DFA from the rangers.
4.92era 1.5whip 8HBP 10.0h/9 3.5bb/9 4.9so/9 1.0hr/9

[wanks1212]

padilla's peripherals suck

[Fish and Chips]

yea i was thinking that. But at a low cost he is very serviceable, he is a Inning eaters(averages 6inning a starts), and can benefit greatly from the AL-to-NL switch, and moving to a more pitcher-friendly stadium in Landshark.

[Maybin]

2 months of Vicente Padilla is not worth 6 million dollars

[nny]

2 months of Vicente Padilla is not worth 6 million dollars

2 months of vincente padilla is worth pro-rated 300k
--------------------
which would be 100k

[Maybin]

My bad, I was looking at his current contract, not if he was signed as a FA

[Malman]

padilla's peripherals suck

Not to mention he'll infect the entire freakin' clubhouse with swine flu.

:confused

[Fish and Chips]

but he will protect hanley, so hanley can hit homeruns

[Omar]

If we're promised the relatively same production out of West and Smoltz as some would argue (I would not, I think Smoltz would be a marginal improvement at least), isn't Smoltz still better because we don't risk messing with West's head for good?

[MiamiHomer]

With the Marlins really doing the unthinkable this weekend as sweeping Philly after we looked like absolute shit in Washington we still have this issue of the 4th/5th starter and I really have no idea what the Marlins are going to decide to do. Vanden Hurk still worries me quite a bit and Sean West/Andrew Miller are in no position to take that 5th spot so what are the Marlins going to do?

[FishFanInPA]

Why couldn't we stretch Sanches out for the 4 or 5 spot? He could go 5 himself almost.

[Swifty]

I think the question comes down to this:

Do we trust some combination of West/RVH/Miller/Anibal to give us 80ish innings of a 1.3 WHIP?

If the answer is yes, then the prudent thing becomes a rotation spot by committee. If you catch lightning in a bottle and someone gets hot, then yeah, you have both spots filled out.

Ultimately, I think we're one starter short. I'd be content riding West/Sanchez/Miller for the rest of the season, but we need to find that one extra arm, and it has to come from outside the organization; since we're trying to make the playoffs, we have to be prepared for when we get there, and you need 4 starters, and there is no one, save perhaps Miller or a healthy and effective Anibal (which may simply no longer exist) that is worthy of making the post season start if need be.

[Party]

No way would I take a flier on Smoltz. Has anyone seen how low his arm has dropped? Good luck getting enough movement on any breaking pitches with an arm angle that is almost side arm. I may even support Padilla over Smoltz.

I'd take West over Smoltz. He is a lefty, fastball is harder and his breaking pitches are more likely to get outs.

[mbitcronod12]

Count the Florida Marlins among the teams interested in veteran right-hander and future Hall of Famer John Smoltz.
Smoltz refused a minor-league assignment and informed the Red Sox he had no interest in pitching out of the bullpen for them. They have until Sunday to either trade him or give him his outright release. The Marlins are probably among no less than half a dozen teams that would take onSmoltz.
He's got a good relationship with manager Fredi Gonzalez from their Atlanta days. You would think this would be an attractive situation for him considering he knows the National League East inside and out.
One scout told me of Smoltz: "I think he has something in the tank with something to prove. Not sure about closing, but there is a spot out of 12 for him."
Is the best spot in the bullpen? As a fifth starter? Would you guys rather see Smoltz instead of Sean West or Rick VandenHurk?
Let's not forget he lost five of his eight starts with an 8.32 ERA and gave up 59 hits in 40 innings with the Red Sox. He did walk nine and strikeout 33. Maybe he'd have an easier go of it in the NL.
The Marlins certainly could use the starting pitching depth. The toughest thing about the 14-6 loss to the Astros was that the bullpen needed to cover 5 2/3 innings after totaling 6 1/3 of Tuesday's 11-inning win.
Afterward, the Marlins optioned Tim Wood to Triple-A New Orleans. They need another arm just in case Sean West blows up Thursday. Too soon to bring back Luis Ayala, so the Marlins probably will dip into Double-A for eitherCristhian Martinez or Chris Leroux. Martinez last pitched on Sunday. He's probably good for three innings if the Marlins find themselves in a pinch. Leroux last pitched on Monday, tossing 2 1/3 innings in relief.
Quick Double-A side note...Anibal Sanchez looked good Wednesday in the first of two scheduled rehab starts for the Suns. He got the win after allowing a run on four hits through seven innings with two walks and three strikeouts. He's set to go again on Monday. After that, his next outing may be for the Marlins.


Source (http://blogs.sun-sentinel.com/sports_baseball_marlins/2009/08/florida-marlins-among-the-teams-interested-in-john-smoltz.HTML)

[Sashimi]

Would you guys rather see Smoltz instead of Sean West or Rick VandenHurk?

No.

[Ramp]

I am definitely in favor of bringing in Smoltzie

[Sashimi]

I am definitely in favor of bringing in Smoltzie

As a starter?

[Ramp]

Whatever he wants. I just want him around our pitchers.

[FishFF]

No thanks.

[Omar]

Whatever he wants. I just want him around our pitchers.
What Ramp said. The announcers were talking briefly the other night about the positive impact Moehler had on the starters when he was here. Imagine how much that's multiplied if you have someone like Smoltz who has both started and closed at a Hall of Fame level. Oh, and he is the original MAN in October.

That, and, well, the back end of our rotation sucks. Let's face it.

[Marlinsfan4lyfe]

I jus dont see how this could be a bad thing. His veteran presence could help our pitchers big time.

Maybe he can do what Troy Percival did for the Rays bullpen last year.

[Sashimi]

I jus dont see how this could be a bad thing.

Because we'd be running a guy out there who has nothing left and would actually be worse than our in-house options.

His veteran presence could help our pitchers big time.

The "veteran presence" effect (as in he is going to make our current pitchers better) is so overrated, IMO. At this point, he's got to worry more about getting his own shit together and not embarrassing himself that I highly doubt he's going to be able to devote much time to 'mentoring' the other guys.

[Party]

I'd rather have that veteran presence on the coaching staff and not taking up a spot on the 25 man roster.

[Swifty]

OK, someone please explain to me this:

We have 5 rotation spots. 1 (JJ) is slam dunk no way in hell can you improve upon it. 1 (Nolasco) is alright, very up and down, but at this point in the season, you take the chance for brilliance along with the risk of dismemberment because you just can't improve at this time of the year. The rest, they're fucking awful. Volstad, West, Vandenhurk. Gross.

At the very worst, Smoltz gives you the same innings, a better K total and fewer walks than Vandenhurk; at the best, you get Ricky Nolasco lite. Sign me up for that. Heck, trade a B minus prospect to get him for free. What's the problem in getting Smoltz? It's not like he's taking a job from a deserving and performing player, and it's not like the season is lost. If you can get a guy like him right now to help us out, you do it.

And, as a disclaimer, I realize that we'd be reluctant to trade for Smoltz, and would rather sign him as a FA since he has a crazy clause in his contract that just pays him for days spent on the 25 man roster (I think $30K per day in addition to whatever he's already owed, plus innings threshold bonuses).

[FishFF]

I mean if you want a pitcher who can go 4-5 innings of 5er+ ball, go get em.

[Sashimi]

At the very worst, Smoltz gives you the same innings, a better K total and fewer walks than Vandenhurk; at the best, you get Ricky Nolasco lite

RVH is a better option than the present-day Smoltz (people are still waxing too nostalgic). Smoltz will not K more than RVH and, more importantly, he will give up more runs. If we still had T&B bucks, I'd put fake money on it.

And Nolasco lite? lol.

[Swifty]

Pitcher 1:

7.425 K/9
2.025 BB/9
1.8 HR/9

Pitcher 2:

8.3 K/9
3.46 BB/9
2.07 HR/9

Pitcher 3:

6.13 K/9
2.81 BB/9
1.47 HR/9

Select two out of the three for the down the stretch rotation, then I'll tell you who they are.

[FishFF]

I'll take #2 and #3 with Anibal coming back

[BigGameFish]

Pitcher 1 and whatever pitcher between 2 and 3 depends on who has less Hits/9 and IP/start

[FishFF]

Smoltz 13.3 H/9 should count too.

[Sashimi]

One could argue that Smoltz has been unlucky with his BABIP and that will adjust, bringing down his H/9. But given his age and recent injury history, I would need to know more about what his stuff (and velocity) look like in order to say for sure that he's not just very hittable at this point. Though, sadly, his K/9 is still higher than Volstad's.

[BigGameFish]

I'd rather have a guy pitch 7-8 Innings with 0K's and 0 ER than someone pitch 3 innings strike out the side every inning giving him 27K/9. So Smoltz having a higher K/9 isnt as important as other factors.

By the way I'm not saying Volstad, Smoltz, or anyone puts up those #'s lol

[Mainge]

He's consistently hit 92-93 in the starts I've seen and he does have 33 k's in 40 ip so the breaking stuff seems to be there.

[wanks1212]

One could argue that Smoltz has been unlucky with his BABIP and that will adjust, bringing down his H/9. But given his age and recent injury history, I would need to know more about what his stuff (and velocity) look like in order to say for sure that he's not just very hittable at this point. Though, sadly, his K/9 is still higher than Volstad's.

His velocity is down a shade and, going by Pitch F/X data, he doesn't have quite as much movement as he used to, but he's still got decent movement on his pitches.

I'd rather have Volstad starting than Smoltz, and probably woudl rather have RVH, even though RVH is likely a 4-6 inning pitcher. But Smoltz is a better option in the #5 spot than West (even with West having a nice first two innings so far tonight) and I like Smoltz better than Anibal down the stretch, primarily because of Anibal's injury issues and Anibal not pitching all that well even when healthy.

Unfortunately, I doubt the Marlins would use Anibal in the bullpen when he's healthy. That doesn't seem to make much sense with the way they're preparing him. And I doubt Smoltz would bump Volstad from the rotation, and even moving RVH may be dicey.

That said, if the team is willing to put Smoltz in the #5 spot he's a risk worth taking. But if they want him in the bullpen, it may not work. Not because Smoltz wouldn't work as a long reliever, but more because Smoltz may not want to pitch out of the bullpen. If Smoltz is open to being moved around from rotation to bullpen, then go for it, but if the possibility of Smoltz pitching in the bullpen is a deal breaker, then don't do it.

[nny]

yeah, if Smoltz would stay in the BP, I imagine he'd have stayed in Boston

[Omar]

The "veteran presence" effect (as in he is going to make our current pitchers better) is so overrated, IMO. At this point, he's got to worry more about getting his own shit together and not embarrassing himself that I highly doubt he's going to be able to devote much time to 'mentoring' the other guys.
How is it overrated to teach/sharpen a younger guy's pitch? Or teach him how to be more consistent on his arm slot? Maybe have a better routine?

These things rub off on players very easily, even if it's merely by example.
--------------------
They just made John Smoltz the "Jaguar Performer of the Day" or whatever it's called during our broadcast. Take it for what it's worth.

[Swifty]

From Jayson Stark:


The Smoltz Watch: If the Red Sox wind up releasing John Smoltz, which seems likely, the list of teams interested in signing him for the prorated minimum salary might be larger than people think. A number of clubs were gathering information on Smoltz this week -- from the teams we've heard a lot about (the Rangers and Dodgers) to teams we haven't (the Marlins and Astros).
But one of the big questions is: Does the 2009 edition of John Smoltz profile better as a starter or as a reliever? The numbers suggest he ought to head back to the bullpen. Over his past seven starts, his ERA over the first two innings was 0.64, and opponents hit just .196 against him.

"What I saw," said one scout who watched him recently, "is, the first time through the order, it's good."

There have been some indications that Smoltz would consider a return to the 'pen if it was the right team and the right situation. But even as a bullpen weapon, Smoltz would have his limitations.
"You'd be signing him to be a multi-inning guy who could maybe pitch two or three innings," said an official of one team with back-burner interest. "But the problem is, then he'd have to sit for two or three days. You couldn't use him back-to-back."

Nevertheless, he's still John Smoltz, one of the most intelligent and competitive pitchers of his time. So he could help some of these teams just by walking through the door.

"Can you imagine the impact he could make on a team like Florida?" mused one exec. "How valuable would he be to the young guys on that staff, just to be around him and pick his brain?"

[MiamiHomer]

I know we need a SP and after reading that article it wouldn't be likely but damn would Smoltz look nice as a closer again.

Also been getting this update from following the Marlins on facebook.

The Marlins are looking for pitching help, and John Smoltz is exploring new job opportunities.

Whether the two sides come together remains a long-shot at this point. But that doesn't mean the organization isn't considering the prospect of adding the veteran right-hander, who was designated for assignment by the Red Sox on Aug. 7.

If he is not traded before 2 p.m. ET on Monday, Smoltz becomes a free agent. If the Marlins swing a deal for Smoltz, they'd be looking at picking up the remainder of his salary. The daily breakdown would be about $35,000, unless the Red Sox agree to pick up a large bulk of the remaining contract.

According to a source, teams believed to have interest in Smoltz are the Marlins, Cardinals, Dodgers and Rangers.

The 42-year-old right-hander could be open to either starting or pitching out of the bullpen. The Marlins have a need for both.

Smoltz last pitched on Aug. 6 in the Red Sox's loss to the Yankees. He threw 3 1/3 innings that day, giving up eight runs while walking four. He was 2-5 with an 8.33 ERA in eight starts for Boston.

In his stellar career, which started in Atlanta in 1988, Smoltz has a 212-152 record with a 3.32 ERA. He also has 154 saves.

In Atlanta, he worked closely with Marlins manager Fredi Gonzalez, who formerly was the Braves third base coach.

"I think he's a tremendous competitor and a good guy," Gonzalez said of Smoltz, noting that he couldn't say anything regarding the Marlins possibily acquiring the veteran.

-- Joe Frisaro

[Bobbob1313]

Heck, trade a B minus prospect to get him for free..

so you'd trade chris coghlan for 9 starts from John Smoltz when he could potentially be had for the prorated minimum in 4 days?

[Swifty]

I wouldn't trade Coghlan because he's not a prospect any more. I'd trade Scott Cousins or John Raynor for him, though.

And, as I've said before, the reason I advocate trading for him is that I have my doubts he'd sign with us were he to reach free agency. If we want him, we cannot leave it to chance.

[MiamiHomer]

The Red Sox released John Smoltz, according to Jon Paul Morosi of FOX Sports.

And here...we....go.

[Ramp]

And here...we....go.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v167/Ramp101/Joker.gif

[FishTankFan]

This could be a good pick up I don't know how well he would do in the rotation but I think as a closer he would fit in nice here.

It would add another vet arm to the pen which it needs it, and just having him on the team would be good lets not forget he's won 212, and saved 154 games!

This guy knows how to pitch... He might be getting old but his very presence will help.

[Party]

Didn't help the Red Sox.

[Beef]

Yeah. PWG gon be mad, but to just assume he will help for some reason being that he once was very good at pitching is silly.

It could indeed be a nice pickup.

But to say just having him on the team would be nice because of his career numbers is like saying just having Nolan Ryan on the team right now would be great.

[FishTankFan]

All im saying is it wouldn't hurt us I don't think...

[Ramp]

If utilized correctly (imo, the bullpen), I think Smoltz can be a big boost to the team

[PitchingWinsGames]

Yeah. PWG gon be mad, but to just assume he will help for some reason being that he once was very good at pitching is silly.

It could indeed be a nice pickup.

But to say just having him on the team would be nice because of his career numbers is like saying just having Nolan Ryan on the team right now would be great.

Why would I be mad? If he sticks, he sticks, if he sucks, send him packing. Low-risk, moderate reward.

[Beef]

I thought you was gon be mad that I responded to one of them silly posts where somebody says something like veteran presence gon make us good and shiz like that

[PitchingWinsGames]

I thought you was gon be mad that I responded to one of them silly posts where somebody says something like veteran presence gon make us good and shiz like that

There's a difference between "veteran presence" and saying "we" when referring to the team.

[Beef]

Suck our dick

[PitchingWinsGames]

Suck our dick

Ok, Rickey

[BigGameFish]

If utilized correctly (imo, the bullpen), I think Smoltz can be a big boost to the team

Agree 100%

Smoltz would be a A++ addition if he would agree to close for us.

I also believe he can have success as a starter, there's no doubt that the guy knows how to pitch. He just needs to put it together. I would not be surprised at all to see him sign here. Marlins can only benefit from it.







(Unless he doesnt want to be in the BP)

[nny]

re: BP

Billy Wagner?

Big risk because he's coming back from injury but he showed absolutely no signs of slowing down prior to his injury.

the other thing is money. He's due 1.75m+ plus a 1m buyout, for 2.75m+. And so if we were to get the Mets to, say, eat his pay this year with us being responsible for buyout, that just raises what we send in trade even more.

I'm not sure what he'd cost in a trade, which is the 100 million dollar question to if it's worth it or not, but I thought I'd bring it up regardless.

[Ramp]

already had these discussions with someone else, but yea nny, would def be in favor of Wagner

[wanks1212]

Something on Smoltz's velocity/whiff rates (http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2009/8/18/994008/john-smoltz-whats-left-in-the-tank). Not really promising, although they don't get into just how many fewer swings and misses Smoltz is getting.

Even if everything said there is true, he still profiles as a decent ROOGY

[Omar]

By Jayson Stark
ESPN.com
Archive

John Smoltz is "strongly leaning" toward signing with the St. Louis Cardinals, two major league sources with direct knowledge of his negotiations told ESPN.com Tuesday night.

Smoltz has told friends he will decide on a team Wednesday, once his release waivers expire and he officially becomes a free agent. However, all indications were that he will choose the Cardinals over a group of pursuers that includes the Los Angeles Dodgers, Florida Marlins and Texas Rangers.

The Cardinals would like Smoltz to pitch out of the bullpen as a set-up man for closer Ryan Franklin. And while Smoltz has told clubs he would prefer to start, he has apparently decided St. Louis is the best fit.

The 42-year-old right-hander's preference is to pitch in the National League. And he is close with both Mark DeRosa and Adam Wainwright, two former Atlanta Braves teammates who are now with the Cardinals. Both have been actively recruiting Smoltz over the last few days.

Smoltz went 2-5, with an 8.32 ERA, in eight starts for the Boston Red Sox, who released him Monday. However, in the final seven of those starts, he had a 0.64 ERA in the first two innings -- which led both the Cardinals and Marlins to conclude he would be most effective pitching out of the bullpen at this point in his career. Smoltz last pitched out of the bullpen in 2004, when he saved 44 games in his fourth and final season as the Braves' closer.

Jayson Stark is a senior baseball writer for ESPN.com.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4408342

[Metes]

Taking one last shot at another ring. Good for him. I think STL gives him the best chance for that.

[nny]

It's obviously too late now but hypothetical

Would you trade Peter Andrelczyk for Bill Hall, with Brewres picking up this year salary and, say, all but 1.5m of next year salary (so plus 500k buyout = Bill Hall for 2m)? I'd imagine Buddy Flores has quite a lot less value than Andre, since he's two years older with worse results, but Mariners are also probably paying more in '10.

While his offensive value has fallen down, he still play plus defense at 8 positions. At best he goes back to being a ~.750 OPS and helps solidify 3b. Because if Logan/Gaby falter, we're then back with Cantu at first and Boni at 3rd. Well, actually at best he goes back to being a mid 800 OPS bat but that's beside the point. And at worst, he's alfredo amezaga that can platoon against LHP.

I'm not sure if I do (2m goes a long way in the draft/international signings/ect for what'd probably be a null upgrade), but figured I'd bring it up regardless.

[wanks1212]

Billy Wagner was placed on waivers today. May be worth a flier.

[Swifty]

We could definitely use him, but even if we got him, you know we'd still use Pinto more, and in the higher leverage situations.

[Big Z]

Wagner would be nice but according to rotoworld he's still owed 2.7 mil this year and a 1 mil buyout of a 2010 option

[jonathan2323]

Livan Hernandez was realeased by the Mets.

Marlins should pick him up!

[Metes]

Yes, we need someone to clean out the locker rooms

[Bobbob1313]

The same Livan Hernandez of the 5.28 ERA since 06?

[nny]

The same Livan Hernandez of the 5.28 ERA since 06?

I'd rather have Livan's guaranteed 6 IP of 5 ERA baseball than Sean Wests 5 IP of 5 ERA baseball, especially since that would then mean West could go to AA and be at the level he needs to be at to get ready to be a MLB pitcher.

[dgriot]

Livan signs with the Nats, should start tomorrow.

[FishFanInPA]

Trevor Hoffman placed on Waivers. Why not get him? What his contract for a one year deal

[Ramp]

Trevor Hoffman rhp
1 year/$6M (2009)

* 1 year/$6M (2009)
o signed by Milwaukee as a free agent 1/8/09
o performance bonuses: $0.15M for 35 GF; $0.2M each for 38, 41, 45, 48 GF; $0.25M each for 50, 52 GF
o award bonuses: $50,000 each for All Star, Gold Glove, LCS MVP, Rolaids ($25,000 for 2nd place); $0.1M for WS MVP; $0.1M for Cy Young ($50,000 for 2nd place, $25,000 for 3rd); $0.1M for MVP ($50,000 for 2nd place, $25,000 for 3rd)
o perks: suite on road, four first-class round-trip air tickets from Milwaukee to San Diego once during season

[Swifty]

I feel like if you're the agent for a relief pitcher, you push harder for a 1st place MVP finish to be worth at least a million.

[wanks1212]

Trevor Hoffman was claimed off waivers. Rotoworld is speculating it's the Marlins, but there's nothing conclusive.

[nny]

by this just keep the money and we never offer relievers arbitration so unless they break the mold it's trading a lot for a Type A guy to not get draft picks plus with the position we're in it's better to have specs that are almost ready then to take a gamble on some guy and have him be in R ball for years and I mean not to be a debbie downer but we more or less need to be unbeatable the rest of the way if we want a chance going by BP's post season odds the average wild card win was 92 we'd have to go 26-9 the rest of the way with a .743 win percent and unless ricky is always ace ricky and volstad is always ace volstad and anibal is always ace anibal and west is always ace west we aren't doing that we were down to a 8.8% chance to make the playoffs and that was before todays game I know people are going to say no way you can't do that but I seriously gotta wonder about placing on our guys on waivers that won't be here next year though probalby better to wait until the offseason where we can hear offers for every single guy and see what gives what and rank the value of getting what we get for him while we keep this guy

[Swifty]

Punctuation would be awesome.

And, no, you don't deal Uggla/Cantu/Hermida now. You deal one (all?) in the offseason when teams can bid against each other. Anyone that needs Uggla now won't pay a stupid rate because, guess what, everyone one of our guys is "blockable" ahh, the wonders of not having a guaranteed contract beyond 2009.

[nny]

That's only 3 players

[Swifty]

Who on our team wouldn't get blocked?

Calero? We'll be lucky to get a B- prospect for him, I'd rather just keep him around to log innings, even if it's just in every JJ start.

Meyer? Pinto? We'll be lucky to get PTBNL's for them. At some point, you have a player who has more value to the organization than he'll return in a trade, that's the case with most of our guys. For all we know, most of them were put on waivers and pulled back already. When teams have more money on the disabled list than we do on our active roster, I have a hard time believing we have a plethora of players with value clearing.

[nny]

we have plenty of rp specs that could use the reps in place of Kiko. He also has value because he'll be a Type B FA. And we never offer arbitration to RPs. So unless they break the mold, we get more value out of him by trading him.

and under no circumstance should we trade Meyer. Even though he's probably a 4 era guy we have no lefty depth what so ever and we have him for nothing for two more years.

Possibility Paulino would get interest since he's shown he can hit fine again. And doesn't seem we want to pay for a back up catcher based off what we've done before.

It's too bad we've started Ross Gload for the past two weeks. If he was still sporting a mid 700 OPS we might have gotten something for him considering his versatility. Maybe something like one of what Hinske got. Oh well.

[FishFanInPA]

Mahay is a 13-year veteran who was DFA'd by the Royals this week after posting a 1-1 record with a 4.79 ERA in 41.1 innings in 41 appearances.

Any interest?

[geemoney]

Any interest?
And he could pinch-hit for us!

[Ramp]

It's been reported it was the Giants, not the Marlins, that claimed Trevor Hoffman

[Big Z]

Oh well, I understand passing on hoffman due to our bullpen being above average. I do think we HAVE to get a starter though, we can't stay in this race if our 4th and 5th starters are "hot" for a couple games cause they Will meltdown, down the stretch. Let's atleast get Penny, Harden would be awesome, but as long as we improve I'll be satisfied with our management and atleast we will know we tried

[Ramp]

Is Penny an improvement over what we're throwing out there right now? I don't know. But if the Marlins think he is, they need to sign him asap.

[Swifty]

I think Penny represents 50-70 salvageable innings.

Our schedule gets really funky on September 7th. We'll have 3 off-days in 3 1/2 weeks, with a double header sandwiched in there against Philly in Miami. Obviously, that offday doesn't mean we'd necessarily need to "find" another starter as we could throw one guy on an extra day's rest and one guy on regular rest, but assuming no rainouts and that we just keep our top-4 going on a regular schedule, Johnson would miss that HUGE Phillies series entirely (he'd throw 9/20 @ CIN and then 9/25 vs NYM; the Phillies series starts 9/22 with the double header). What's more concerning, is on that regular throw schedule, JJ would not be going in the final series of the year @ Philly either, and would have to go on short rest to just pitch the final day.

So, with that in mind (and I know Beinfest and Fredi don't even care), we're going to have to reshuffle our rotation. We're probably going to need to bring in a "sixth" arm to make at least one start to let JJ get lined up with the Phillies series (as in plural); thus, I'd make a case anyone we'll claim or be rumored to be claiming is an upgrade over any in house "emergency" starter candidates we have. This isn't even an "OMG, it wasn't Volstad, it was the rain" argument, this is simply, we need an extra arm for the way our September is scheduled and the way our rotation lines up, at the moment. So whether it's Penny, Harden, Redding or whomever, I don't care, we need an extra arm.

And on the Penny front. He's 31, he's pitching for another one year deal that's guaranteed above the ML minimum, and, the 800 LB gorilla in the room is, if we slide in the standings, what do we do with JJ? We're clearly scared about his innings (I'm going to start a topic about this) and I get the feeling we're a bad week and a half standings wise away from just shutting him down for the year. Bringing in Penny gives us the option to do that and still make an effort to "finish strong."

[Big Z]

The Twins acquired John Rauch, claimed Harden and are close to acquiring Mahay.The Giants are the team that claimed Heilman, so our company for Penny is minimizing

[Ramp]

I got no problems in grabbing Penny for if/when we shut down JJ. I just don't know if Penny is what we should be looking for while we're still somewhat in the race

[Big Z]

What do you think we can get, Other then penny?

[Omar]

The Twins acquired John Rauch, claimed Harden and are close to acquiring Mahay.The Giants are the team that claimed Heilman, so our company for Penny is minimizing
If the Twins claimed him then apparently we have no interest

[Ramp]

I think AL got first dibs at him

[nny]

/random but i got nowhere else for /random

I was on Sickel's site to read about the guys TB got

And I saw a fanpost about top 3b prospects so I was like I wonder how people think about Dominguez yeah?

Guy rated him 5th. Cool stuff.

He compared him to Brian Giles. He's an idiot.

God I fucking hate comparisons made. Yeah Dominguez is gonna come up and post a 1.5 BB/K people! WOO. dumbass

[nny]

/random but i got nowhere else for /random

I was on Sickel's site to read about the guys TB got

And I saw a fanpost about top 3b prospects so I was like I wonder how people think about Dominguez yeah?

Guy rated him 5th. Cool stuff.

He compared him to Brian Giles. He's an idiot.

God I fucking hate comparisons made. Yeah Dominguez is gonna come up and post a 1.5 BB/K people! WOO. dumbass

His response to me

"You can not only look at minor league stats to make a comp for a player. You get a much better feel for a player by actually watching him play."

:lol ok. So you can SEE that Matt Dominguez is gonna come up and put up a 1.5 BB/K. Ok :lol

I mean, I'm not insulting visual scouting, it has vast importance. But by God it leaves to dumbfuck as dumbfuck comps.

[Big Z]

So penny is supposed to be officially released today by noon. Does he have to sign today with another team to be elegible for the playoffs or by tomorrow? He says he wants to play for the team with the best chance of going all the way, and the yanks are now pursuing him too, so this should be interesting, our chances seem slimmer then I thought they were

[Swifty]

There's a rumor going around that his release was predicated upon him not signing with an AL team.

We shall see.

[Big Z]

Oh, that's true, he wasn't supposed to sign with an AL contender. But is he supposed to sign with someone today or is it tomorrow?

[Marlinsfan4lyfe]

Penny Watch 2009 is on

[Big Z]

Here's a nice little article, it's interesting, I didn't know we were also looking for a bat. Bakers comment is funny saying that pinto is going to give him a heart attack at 28 years old

Will Marlins win the Brad Penny sweepstakes?


by Joe Capozzi
Sometime today Brad Penny should clear waivers, opening a scramble for teams vying for his services. The Marlins are one of those teams, but if you’re Brad Penny and you can choose among the Yankees, Giants and Marlins, where would you want to go?


Brad Penny at Fenway Park in June
Sure, Penny had a solid career with the Marlins, winning more World Series games in 2003 (two) than did Josh Beckett, the series’ MVP. I think it’s a long shot. We’ll know by tomorrow, the deadline for teams to sign players they want to include on their post-season roster. At the very least, Florida’s run at Penny at least shows that the front office isn’t giving up on the season yet.
And the Marlins aren’t just looking at pitchers, according to a source who says the team is trying to land a position player…

LHP Renyel Pinto got the job done Sunday but he sure did create some unnecessary drama. In the bottom of the seventh inning, with Florida leading 5-3, he allowed the first two batters he faced to reach base, starting with pinch-hitter David Eckstein’s double.

With runners at first and second and one out, he struck Oscar Salazar (3-for-3 coming into the at-bat) and got Kevin Kouzmanoff to bounce out to end the inning.

“Pinto is possibly gonna give me a heart attack at 28 years old,” catcher John Baker said. “He always seems to walk the tightrope and he makes big pitches.” ..

Big month for Chris Coghlan, who got his 46th hit in August on Sunday — the most in any month by a National League rookie since Wally Moon had 52 for the Cardinals in July 1954.

A TV reporter asked Coghlan if he’d ever heard of Wally Moon. The Marlins rookie smiled: “You’re going ask me on camera I if I know him? I do not. No disrespect to him.”

Moon went on to win the NL Rookie of the Year Award in ‘54. Coghlan is making a strong case to win the award this year.

Coghlan’s response reminded me of the time Marlins second baseman Luis Castillo was asked during his 35-game hitting streak in 2002 if he’d ever heard of Joe DiMaggio. Luis gave a memorable blank stare, said something in Spanish to his interpreter — Marlins third base coach Ozzie Guillen — and shrugged his shoulders…

[Ramp]

If a team "wins" the Brad Penny spree, do they really "win"?

[wanks1212]

you don't win friends with salad

[Big Z]

Depends what type of Penny they get. Rosenthal is reporting that the Giants are the strong favorite for brad penny but idk rosenthal talks a lot of shit

[FishFanInPA]

If a team "wins" the Brad Penny spree, do they really "win"?

Ding Ding Ding. I dont consider Penny to be this massive upgrade. I like West a little more.

[Ramp]

Now if we're signing Penny because we shut down some arms, I have no problem with that. I just don't see Penny being an upgrade, but more of an innings eater to get through this season.

[Big Z]

Looks like he's heading to SF, I'm sure Beinfest has something up his sleeve though, I don't think he leaves the deadline without getting a pitcher or bat, considering we're in the middle of contention with less then 35 games to go

[Ramp]

pretty sure the waiver deadline already came and went

now anyone acquired would not qualify for the playoffs (if that was to be the case)

[Beef]

I think its midnight

[Ramp]

yea, you might be right... think I misunderstood the deadline with Harden to the Twins

anyway, Brad Penny signed with San Fran

[Big Z]

Don't we have until tonight to Set our 25 man roster / playoff roster

[mbitcronod12]

The 25 man roster is really irrelevant. As long as a player is on the 40 man roster and has been a part of the team at some point during the season, that player is eligible to be on the playoff roster. For example, Nick Johnson, Maybin, Volstad, Miller and Badenhop are all eligible to be on the playoff roster even though none of them are on the active roster right now. They have all played for the team this year and are on the 40 man roster.

Today is the last day to add players not on the 40 man roster (whether players already in the organization or players from other teams, like Brad Penny).

[Swifty]

Except they have to be on the active roster for tonight if they're not in the organization.

Hence the deadline. I think everyone realizes that if you were here before, you're fine now.

[mbitcronod12]

That what I was saying. I was just clarifying because some people seem to think that only the people on the 25 man roster at midnight tonight can be on the playoff roster.

[Big Z]

I'm a little confused with any trade after July 31st. It was said earlier, that we might add a bat, how would this work if the waiver wire already passed?

[Ramp]

The waiver wire deadline (for postseason eligibility) is supposedly midnight tonight. I'd be shocked if we added anything of note

[nny]

Big month for Chris Coghlan, who got his 46th hit in August on Sunday — the most in any month by a National League rookie since Wally Moon had 52 for the Cardinals in July 1954.

A TV reporter asked Coghlan if he’d ever heard of Wally Moon. The Marlins rookie smiled: “You’re going ask me on camera I if I know him? I do not. No disrespect to him.”

Moon went on to win the NL Rookie of the Year Award in ‘54. Coghlan is making a strong case to win the award this year.

Somewhat interesting is that Wally Moon at that bad of a comp for Coghlan. It'd be on the high end though. Since Wally had high teen - 20+ HR power, and a career .157 ISO.

But a career .289/.371/.445/.817 line with 11.7% BB/12.2 K%.

[wanks1212]

Not a pitcher but interesting nonetheless

• Deals That Never Happened, Chapter 2: We're hearing the Marlins were one of several clubs that made a run at Mike Cameron before the Aug. 31 deadline, only to have the Brewers back off on dealing Cameron or anyone else. The rumblings some clubs got were that Brewers owner Mark Attanasio decided that while they might not be able to catch the Cardinals in the next month, it was worth hanging onto guys like Cameron and Trevor Hoffman if they could just pass the Cubs.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&page=rumblings090903